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Thread: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

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    Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    OK, here's a subject close to my heart:

    Free Tap Water at Dance Venues.

    In this document:

    http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/p...Conditions.pdf

    On page 3:

    "The Licensing Act 2003 (Mandatory Licensing Conditions) Order 2010
    sets out the five new conditions that will apply to all licensed premises and those with a club premises certificate

    From 6th April 2010, these conditions will


    • Ban irresponsible promotions;
    • Ban the dispensing of alcohol directly into the mouth; and
    • Ensure that customers have access to free tap water so that they can space out their drinks and
    not get too intoxicated too quickly.


    So there you have it; refusal to serve FREE tap water would be a breach of the new conditions of licensing.

    Now, assuming I'm reading all that correctly, I'm quite pleased about that because:
    1. There's a venue I no longer dance at because I refuse to pay almost £2 for a tiny bottle of mineral water.
    2. There's another relatively new venue I no longer dance at because after a few months when they found that dancers mainly drink water they doubled their price for tap water overnight.

    I don't object to paying a small fee for the trouble of providing, collecting, and washing the glass, but this new law looks like venue operators won't have any choice from now on.

    So, what will happen next?

    Will entrance fees have to rise?

    Will established classes and freestyles get kicked out for being unprofitable?

    Will venue owners simply flout the new law, after all, it's aimed at irresponsible drinkers, and you won't find many drunks in a MJ venue?

    Has anyone on the forum challenged a venue owner yet using this new law?


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    Re: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    I've never been refused a glass of tap water anywhere but, as you say, some places charge for it to cover glass cleaning, collection etc.

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    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post

    I don't object to paying a small fee for the trouble of providing, collecting, and washing the glass, but this new law looks like venue operators won't have any choice from now on.

    So, what will happen next?

    Will entrance fees have to rise?

    Will established classes and freestyles get kicked out for being unprofitable?

    Will venue owners simply flout the new law, after all, it's aimed at irresponsible drinkers, and you won't find many drunks in a MJ venue?

    Has anyone on the forum challenged a venue owner yet using this new law?

    Hmmm... well I think it could be counter productive in a number of ways. Firstly, there's a good chance that some venues will move away from serving you water in a glass if you insist on your free water when that has to be collected and cleaned, so that will increase that amount of plastic cups going to landfill.

    Secondly, venue costs in part are based on overall return which includes bar takings. If venue's can no longer charge a fee for water that may result in higher venue rates and this may have to be passed onto dancers.

    The other thing is that the biggest problem for operators is that dancers don't drink, and that's all well and good, but there are two extraordinary venues that we've looked at hiring that just flatly refuse to have Modern Jive dancers through the door because they make no money on the bar.

    So yes, on the one hand free water in principal is a good idea, but it will have an environmental impact, a possible impact on prices for dancers and will restrict available venues.

    As regards serious drinkers: do they REALLY believe that the offer of free water is going to stop people getting off their t1ts??? Of course it won't!

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    Re: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Hmmm... well I think it could be counter productive in a number of ways. Firstly, there's a good chance that some venues will move away from serving you water in a glass if you insist on your free water when that has to be collected and cleaned, so that will increase that amount of plastic cups going to landfill.

    Secondly, venue costs in part are based on overall return which includes bar takings. If venue's can no longer charge a fee for water that may result in higher venue rates and this may have to be passed onto dancers.

    The other thing is that the biggest problem for operators is that dancers don't drink, and that's all well and good, but there are two extraordinary venues that we've looked at hiring that just flatly refuse to have Modern Jive dancers through the door because they make no money on the bar.

    So yes, on the one hand free water in principal is a good idea, but it will have an environmental impact, a possible impact on prices for dancers and will restrict available venues.

    As regards serious drinkers: do they REALLY believe that the offer of free water is going to stop people getting off their t1ts??? Of course it won't!
    I don't actually mind venues charging a reasonable amount for tap water - for all the reasons given above.

    What I do object to is bar managers being absurd - refusing to sell you 'tap water' in place of bottles due to 'health and safety' reasons ... but more than happy to make squash with tap water! Does cordial have some kind of purifying quality that I don't know about?

    Rachel

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    Re: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    I don't actually mind venues charging a reasonable amount for tap water - for all the reasons given above.

    What I do object to is bar managers being absurd - refusing to sell you 'tap water' in place of bottles due to 'health and safety' reasons ... but more than happy to make squash with tap water! Does cordial have some kind of purifying quality that I don't know about?

    Rachel

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    Re: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Hmmm... well I think it could be counter productive in a number of ways. Firstly, there's a good chance that some venues will move away from serving you water in a glass if you insist on your free water when that has to be collected and cleaned, so that will increase that amount of plastic cups going to landfill.

    Secondly, venue costs in part are based on overall return which includes bar takings. If venue's can no longer charge a fee for water that may result in higher venue rates and this may have to be passed onto dancers.

    The other thing is that the biggest problem for operators is that dancers don't drink, and that's all well and good, but there are two extraordinary venues that we've looked at hiring that just flatly refuse to have Modern Jive dancers through the door because they make no money on the bar.

    So yes, on the one hand free water in principal is a good idea, but it will have an environmental impact, a possible impact on prices for dancers and will restrict available venues.

    As regards serious drinkers: do they REALLY believe that the offer of free water is going to stop people getting off their t1ts??? Of course it won't!
    I'm afraid that Rocky has, as usual, got this completely wrong. Even though he might be right

    Any argument, like Rocky's, that the law is wrong is not one that would stand up in court. Yes, I agree that this law reduces the flexibility of bar owners as they MUST offer free tapwater. There is no doubt about this.

    Obviously the effect will be that bars will take less money if they give something away that they previously sold. All they need to do is up their prices elsewhere. That means charging more for other drinks or more for renting the venue. Then the hirer will have to make a business decision based on the new prices.

    Speaking personally, I will not book a venue that doesn't allow free water to be given to dancers. This means I've turned down venues in the past. Like Rocky, I've also found that some venues will not allow the return of MJ dancers because we don't spend enough on drink.

    Maybe we can get the Salvation Army to sponsor a dance.

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    Re: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm afraid that Rocky has, as usual, got this completely wrong. Even though he might be right

    Any argument, like Rocky's, that the law is wrong is not one that would stand up in court. .
    I've not said it's wrong, just incredibly stupid and that it also victimises the bar and pub trade.

    If they are going to enforce this upon the bar trade then they have to enforce it in the retail sector too. Because of the smoking ban and the recession many more people are now getting drunk at home. So surely supermarkets should be forced to stop selling alcohol at ridiculously low prices and presumabably they should also give free bottles of water out to potential p1ss heads so that they 'can take a break' in between binge drinking?

    It's all an utter nonsense.

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    Re: Free Tap Water at Dance Venues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    presumabably they should also give free bottles of water out to potential p1ss heads so that they 'can take a break' in between binge drinking?
    We already have tapwater in our own homes. Although it's not free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    It's all an utter nonsense.
    No, it's the law. The law isn't nonsense, it's an ass.

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