Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 456789101112 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 240

Thread: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

  1. #141
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Hove Actually
    Posts
    7,924
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by sindbad View Post
    Depends what you define as 'learning'. As a beginner I agree, WCS is mostly lead and follow......
    "mostly" no way - beginners should NEVER backlead (or whatever you want to call it)

    Quote Originally Posted by sindbad View Post
    .......Regarding the amount of 'play' in both dances, I have never seen so much 'play' in ceroc as in WCS. I am comparing my dancing of 5 years in ceroc with 1 year in WCS.
    have ever seen Franck freestyle ???


    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    .... local teachers are Val and Rocky, Bill and Bex Cooper, David and Lily B and Rob May. So really learning from some of the best out there.
    amazing dancers and teachers -but to be fair Scotland has some amazing teachers too, some of my favourite leads have been taught by Franck and his crew (who taught Tigerpants aka Charlie)

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    Do you not feel that it as much to do with the aspirations and training of the followers and training given to the leaders as much as the dance itself?


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  2. #142
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    535
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Edit ......

  3. #143
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    I've just started WCS (I couldn't take the nagging at Utopia any more
    )
    Was that nagging because you were dancing in the wrong zone?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    Overall I'm not really finding it very difficult. Its just some simple footwork for the basic patterns and then being able to count time with the music to fit it all in. I'm sure a teacher could offer me a ton of pointers as I am just starting out on a WCS journey, but I don't think its all that difficult for a competent dancer and I don't think I know it all, I'm just a beginner and its going to take a while to get up to Kyle Redd standard.
    You (or I) will never be up to Kyle's standard - we started dancing too late in life - but I do like your attitude as it seems to be one of being happier with what you CAN do than fretful about what you CAN'T do - whether this is through ignorance (in a literal sense) or acceptance I don't know but it's definitely a good mindset to have if you want to enjoy your dancing

  4. #144
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,156
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    For another comparison, I can get people dancing salsa socially after 1 hour's class. This doesn't mean I'm a great salsa teacher, it just means it's possible to do.
    Another useful comparison. I reckon you can do it enjoyably.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Why those three?
    Modern Jive and Argentine Tango because they're already being discussed.

    Cha Cha because the footwork is comparable to WCS, whereas Modern Jive and Argentine Tango don't have to involve particular footwork.

    If you take a range of relatively well known dances, the earlyish enjoyment curve they might rank something like this from easy to hard:-

    • Modern Jive

    - - -
    • Social Foxtrot

    • Cha Cha

    • Salsa

    • Argentine Tango

    - - -
    • Slow Waltz

    • Lindy/ECS

    - - -
    • Quickstep

    • Rumba

    • Ballroom Tango.

    - - -
    X - WCS ?
    • Viennese Waltz

    • Ballroom Samba

    • Slow Foxtrot.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    So what are these unique "greater difficulty" and "relatively unique hurdles" in WCS?
    I've yet to make a full list, but there is a lot of characteristics that move WCS to the other end of the scale compared to modern jive.

    The biggest issue with WCS is probably the way the leader and follower move in such distinctly different ways.


    Combine that with a slow music, large distance between partners and a relatively tenuous physical connection.
    Last edited by frodo; 27th-May-2010 at 11:08 PM.

  5. #145
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    , whereas Modern Jive and Argentine Tango don't have to involve particular footwork.
    Modern Jive has very particular footwork. However, part of the magic is that you get the footwork without being told what it is.

  6. #146
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    27
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Modern Jive has very particular footwork. However, part of the magic is that you get the footwork without being told what it is.
    So Modern Jive has particular footwork but you don't teach it to people? An interesting approach

  7. #147
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomoves View Post
    So Modern Jive has particular footwork but you don't teach it to people? An interesting approach
    I am one of the few MJ teachers who does teach footwork. I think learning footwork means that you are much less likely to get bad habits. However, the downside is that it takes a little bit longer to get the dance - probably another 10 minutes.

    I used to use the "magic" approach and that worked well for the majority of people. However, I have found from experience that a minority of people seem to find MJ much easier if they are told what to do with their feet - a slightly larger minority than the one that is totally confused when you say "guys, put your weight on your right foot and step to the left with your left foot".

    However, if you attend a dance weekender and watch a room full of people dancing MJ, 99% of them are doing the same "particular" footwork. And 99% of them attended a class where the teacher says nothing about footwork and just teaches moves.

    What you are not seeing on that crowded dance floor is the people who needed to be taught footwork - they gave up MJ and took up line-dancing, ballroom, Latin, or some other dance where they can get clear instructions.

    My personal perspective is that MJ is the most simple social partner dance with the most simple footwork. Why simplify the dance even more by not telling them the simple footwork? Or, even worse, saying "there is no footwork"
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 30th-May-2010 at 10:07 AM.

  8. #148
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    300
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Was that nagging because you were dancing in the wrong zone?



    You (or I) will never be up to Kyle's standard - we started dancing too late in life - but I do like your attitude as it seems to be one of being happier with what you CAN do than fretful about what you CAN'T do - whether this is through ignorance (in a literal sense) or acceptance I don't know but it's definitely a good mindset to have if you want to enjoy your dancing
    Too defeatist Robd

    I may never be like Kyle but I am sure I can get to a standard where people want to dance with me and I'm happy about my dancing. I think I'm pretty much there in that place with Ceroc after 20 months from nothing.

    If I aim for where he was in 2007, rather than were he is now. Then I think that's achievable, obviously not tommorrow (unless it turns into a groundhog day) but with enough effort you can get as smooth as that. Then just take it to the next level by having his understanding and you're halfway there. I tell you what, remind me in two years time at Southport May 2012 that I said this and we will see how far I've come from nothing.

    Then I've got to fit in Blues, with Rocky, Val and Lucky Skillen being my markers. Probably a year or so for that (hopefully the dance learning accelerates)

    Tango with Amir being the standard bearer there. (Probably about 18 months again)

    Not really into the Ballroom stuff but could be fun to have a go. I think that will be in 2020.

  9. #149
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    a standard where people want to dance with me
    Roberto is definitely at that standard in a variety of dance styles!

  10. #150
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    I may never be like Kyle but I am sure I can get to a standard where people want to dance with me and I'm happy about my dancing.
    You're a man. If you don't smell, yank or touch inappropriately then you'll always have people that want to dance with you

  11. #151
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    4,386
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    You're a man. If you don't smell, yank or touch inappropriately then you'll always have people that want to dance with you

    I don't know about that last one. Doug Stilton seems to get dancers http://www.howtofeelupyourdancepartner.com/
    Posted via Mobile Device

  12. #152
    Registered User Graham W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    542
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    ...to answer the thread I did a few weeks WCS in Bristol last year - the teacher was Paul Warden - he was helpful, entertaining & though one of the best WCS dancers I've seen (watching on weekenders) did not make the dance hard, in fact when I asked if I could try intermediates he said it was up to me if I felt good enough - good teaching in my book. The demonstraters were Susan Minor & Dawn (surname escapes me) - both were helpful, too... the class though? The women there nearly all tried to mystify the dance, probably justifying why they felt they hadnt got the hang of it themsleves after several weeks or maybe they were doing it cos they thought it was hip. Also remember an American couple teaching on a Ceroc weekender, too, top dollar, too.

    G

  13. #153
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham W View Post
    The women there nearly all tried to mystify the dance, probably justifying why they felt they hadnt got the hang of it themsleves after several weeks or maybe they were doing it cos they thought it was hip.
    I think Graham has got the truth of it. I wish I'd said that myself because it's so right. In fact, I'll probably wait a week or two and claim it as my own idea

  14. #154
    Registered User Graham W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    542
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think Graham has got the truth of it. I wish I'd said that myself because it's so right. In fact, I'll probably wait a week or two and claim it as my own idea
    ..thought that it might just have been that class, but seems not then and remember a friend doing great impressions of 'mystifying' WCS dancers after a beginners class , having said all this I did have some nice dances with my jive-wcs fudge style with wcs dancers on recent Ceroc weekenders in wcs room,

    G

  15. #155
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northeastern Parts
    Posts
    5,221
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham W View Post
    The women there nearly all tried to mystify the dance,
    How so? What were they saying that you understood to be 'mystification'?

  16. #156
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    27
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think Graham has got the truth of it. I wish I'd said that myself because it's so right. In fact, I'll probably wait a week or two and claim it as my own idea
    Yeah, you're right Andy, West Coast Swing is rubbish and all the dancers are w*****s. How could i have been so foolish?

  17. #157
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomoves View Post
    Yeah, you're right Andy, West Coast Swing is rubbish and all the dancers are w*****s. How could i have been so foolish?
    I'm confused. Where were you "so foolish"?

  18. #158
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,041
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham W View Post
    The women there nearly all tried to mystify the dance, probably justifying why they felt they hadnt got the hang of it themsleves after several weeks or maybe they were doing it cos they thought it was hip.
    Do you mean that the women were saying they thought the dance was hard? Maybe that's because it is hard. After all, that would explain why they took more than a few weeks to learn it.

    when I asked if I could try intermediates he said it was up to me if I felt good enough - good teaching in my book
    Potentially bad teaching in my book, if you then went on to ruin your followers' experience in the intermediate class because you had no idea what you were doing. Maybe he just said that because if he wouldn't let you then he would lose a customer. Good business but not good teaching.

    I don't know - maybe you are a superbly talented natural dancer who can pick up anything in the space of a few weeks. But if not, I think you're probably deceiving yourself when you imply that it's an easy dance and that people who struggle with its complexities are rubbish.

    Did you feel good enough, BTW? What did the ladies think?
    Last edited by jivecat; 29th-June-2010 at 12:30 PM.

  19. #159
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    27
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm confused. Where were you "so foolish"?
    You're right Andy, too little information there. I should have said I'm foolish to have wasted the last couple of years going to West Coast Swing classes thinking it's a great dance style taught by great teachers and that the more effort you put in both learning the dance and getting to know the people the more friendly they become and rewarding the dancing gets.

    But know I realise - because you've said so - that the dancers are befuddled at best, snobbish at worst and the teachers are only semi-competent. The music's probably dreadful too, no?

    I'm confused too. Can you just remind me how many West Coast classes you have personally done and when the last one was.

    Thanks

  20. #160
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Is West Coast Swing Made Too Hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomoves View Post
    But know I realise - because you've said so - that the dancers are befuddled at best, snobbish at worst and the teachers are only semi-competent. The music's probably dreadful too, no?
    I don't think I've said those things. The most recent criticism of WCS was this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomoves View Post
    West Coast Swing is rubbish and all the dancers are w*****s.
    And I don't think it makes you popular to start swearing on here in your second post.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. West Coast Swing Judges at Britrock 2008
    By Andy McGregor in forum The Land of a 1000 dances
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 19th-September-2008, 10:25 AM
  2. West Coast Swing near Nottingham?
    By Jan in Notts in forum The Land of a 1000 dances
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 21st-July-2008, 04:18 PM
  3. A new West Coast Swing Workshop/Tea Dance ??
    By Minnie M in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 23rd-January-2008, 10:24 PM
  4. Lindy / West Coast Swing difference?
    By Emma in forum The Land of a 1000 dances
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 21st-September-2007, 03:44 PM
  5. West Coast Swing in Dartford
    By Chef in forum The Land of a 1000 dances
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 27th-May-2006, 05:24 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •