View Poll Results: What is the generic name of OUR dance?

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  • Modern Jive

    32 94.12%
  • LeRoc

    0 0%
  • Ceroc

    1 2.94%
  • Other... (please give your suggested name and explanation below)

    1 2.94%
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Thread: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

  1. #61
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    I hate Balboa - too UCP for me, and most guys tread on my toes (even when I am following correctly) plus, no space for music interpretation. don't believe it is anything like you describe and certainly NOT energetic, it is a very slow alternative to fast lindy

    Funnily enough, at least according to some of the Bal rock-stars I've done workshops with, even pure Bal (all close hold, limited footwork patterns) was all about connection and musical interpretation, in very small spaces, often to very fast music. Granted, it's a far more subtle thing than you'll get in most other dance forms.

    (from what I've heard, I'm not sure the old-timers would have considered this to be pure, given the range of footwork being done, but it all stays in close hold and doesn't break out into bal-swing.

    As a contrast, here's one of my favourite bits of Bal-swing (got to see this live ), from Nick & Sylvia - two of the best dancers on the scene. Musical beyond belief, just a lot more showy.

    Of course - if it's high-energy you want, even ignoring the crazy lifts et al, ....

  2. #62
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by todd View Post
    Taking the slotted discussion further - is MJ slotted or not? I would say yes. It is taught slotted (think about any MJ lesson with rows, etc) save for a few moves and even most of those still end back "on the slot". So, if those moves are then executed correctly (IE as they have been taught) the dance would remain "on the slot".
    MJ is not traditionally taught "slotted" with the guy getting off the lady's line of dance. It's taught on a slight diagonal rather like people passing on a narrow path and then resuming their course in centre of the path. They return to the centre if they want to stay dancing in the same orientation. However, in freestyle this is more likely to get the couple changing their orientation in the room.

    This changing of places is not really slotted in the way of WCS with the guy standing at the side of the slot and the lady staying on her line of dance.

  3. #63
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    The quote I heard was this ""As soon as you start attracting attention to yourself, you [are] not doing Balboa anymore""

    I can't remember who it was that said it. The same quote can be found on wikipedia, again it doesn't say where it came from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balboa_(dance)
    It was something said by the old-timers in general. The reference was really to the fact that they didn't consider anything involving flashy breakaway moves to be Balboa, which rules out most of Bal-Swing. But then - in many ballrooms at the time, things got so crowded that breakaway moves were outright banned.

    Anyway - I'm with Clevedonboy on this - it's not a case of it not looking good, and personally, I think pure Balboa danced well looks fantastic. It's a case of it not being showy.

  4. #64
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post


    As a contrast, here's one of my favourite bits of Bal-swing (got to see this live ), from Nick & Sylvia - two of the best dancers on the scene. Musical beyond belief, just a lot more showy.
    linky?

  5. #65
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy View Post
    linky?
    DOH!


  6. #66
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    MJ is not traditionally taught "slotted" with the guy getting off the lady's line of dance.
    Hmmm, that's how I teach it (and have been taught; admitably, not by all) - would, therefore, appear I'm not very "traditional"..!!!

  7. #67
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by todd View Post
    Hmmm, that's how I teach it (and have been taught; admitably, not by all) - would, therefore, appear I'm not very "traditional"..!!!
    I think that it's down to understanding. My understanding is that the change places moves as taught in Ceroc have the guy moving forward and to the side as the lady is led forward and slightly to the side. This produces a diagonal movement for both partners when compared to the original line drawn between centre points of both partners.

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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think that it's down to understanding. My understanding is that the change places moves as taught in Ceroc have the guy moving forward and to the side as the lady is led forward and slightly to the side. This produces a diagonal movement for both partners when compared to the original line drawn between centre points of both partners.
    (Much as it pains me to agree with Andy...)
    In MJ, both partners should share the movement, both 'getting out of the slot' as they approach each other and then returning to their positions at the ends of the 'slot' when they extend again. If the sharing of this movement is unequal, then the slot tends to rotate with every pass, so it looks "circular".

    One of the floorcraft skills a good dancer can develop is to control this balance and compensate for their partner so that the 'slot' the dancers are dancing on is at whatever angle they wish it to be. (The octopus is a good move to hone this skill)

    In WCS, the lead tends to travel perpendicular to the 'slot' - getting out of the way of the follower. The follower knows that they stay on the slot, the lead knows that they get out of the way: therefore there any in-balance of movement on either side is easy to spot and correct.

    it's one of the things that makes WCS look like WCS: just a difference in styles.
    Last edited by Gadget; 7th-April-2010 at 12:52 AM.

  9. #69
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    Re: The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    (Much as it pains me to agree with Andy...)
    In MJ, both partners should share the movement, both 'getting out of the slot' as they approach each other and then returning to their positions at the ends of the 'slot' when they extend again. If the sharing of this movement is unequal, then the slot tends to rotate with every pass, so it looks "circular".

    - snip -

    In WCS, the lead tends to travel perpendicular to the 'slot' - getting out of the way of the follower. The follower knows that they stay on the slot, the lead knows that they get out of the way: therefore there any in-balance of movement on either side is easy to spot and correct.

    it's one of the things that makes WCS look like WCS: just a difference in styles.
    However, there is no reason why the lead in MJ can't "travel perpendicular to the slot" in certain moves. MJ is a very broad church and can accommodate a variety of styles and still be MJ. Although I prefer to call it the "lady's line of dance".

    I find that travelling across the lady's line of dance introduces a nice combination of body and arm leads in many moves. For instance the hatchback: if the guy treats the lady's right arm as a turnstyle and pushes past the lady and to the right after they have crossed places the lady commences her pivot turn because you have moved your feet - then it's only a gentle nudge with the hand to complete the move.

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