The name of OUR dance: MJ ? ceroc ? LeRoc ?

[SPROGGS]

When I was teaching Jive we used the Tearm Smooth Jive so we didn't get confused with some of the painfull bouncy jive some of the other teachers were running.

I think it also describes the type of music plaed as well (blues, swing, pop, RnB etc) rather than stuff like "Stuck on You" and "Lion Sleeps tonight" etc.

Now...Now..Now.. calm down

If it was painful for you then, it means you were not dancing correctly...

I am sure Andy will be able to help you with your technique as he is a qualified teacher and he has a certificate to prove it.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Now...Now..Now.. calm down

If it was painful for you then, it means you were not dancing correctly...

I am sure Andy will be able to help you with your technique as he is a qualified teacher and he has a certificate to prove it.

Well i don't get what you mean Smooth Jive is just an introduction to West Coast Swing.

Thats like saying Salsa is an introduction to Tango. They are two seperate dances, (though linked in history)

[Gav]

Smooth Jive is slotted Jive.

In your opinion?

[Lee Bartholomew]

In your opinion?

Well it should be. There are many teachers now proclaiming to teach smooth but in reality, teach the bouncy rotational normal stuff.

[Andy McGregor]

In your opinion?

Modern Jive is a smooth dance and it has moves that are best danced with the guy keeping off the lady's line of dance. But that is my opinion and those moves could also be danced in a circular fashion. MJ also has moves that are, by their very nature, danced in a circular fasion. NOWADAYS I think it would be an exaggeration to say that MJ is a "slotted dance". It is not circular either. What you can say for sure is that MJ is danced in place - except when it's travelling

IMHO the term "slotted" is best reserved for WCS. I prefer to use the term "lady's line of dance". The reason for this is that it causes raised eyebrows when the guys are instructed to "cross the lady's slot", etc.

However, moves are danced in the way moves are danced. I spend a great deal of time watching the way people actually dance MJ in a social setting. I believe that our regular teaching should prepare people to join in with the social dance. We are not preparing people to do cabarets or to compete, we are teaching them a dance to be done at parties. However, we should not teach them to dance like the worst people in the room, we should teach them to dance like the best people in the room.

Who judges what is best? I think that is up to individual teachers. I choose to teach what I think is 'best' for the people attending my classes: other teachers might pick out something else as "best".

But we should be very careful if we choose to teach something that is different from the dance we see people doing socially. I know a few MJ teachers who teach a different dance from the one I see being danced in freestyle! There are regional variations and that will account for some of the differences - often the dance isn't wrong, it's just in the wrong place.

Finally, to repeat my opening statement, MJ is not a slotted dance*. Some of the moves can be danced in this way, but they could also be danced in a circular fashion.

*You may find posts of my from the past where I have said "MJ is a slotted dance". I was wrong and I'm admitting it. But I still firmly hold to the view that the non-rotating moves are best danced with the guy keeping off the lady's line of dance.

[Gav]

Well it should be. There are many teachers now proclaiming to teach smooth but in reality, teach the bouncy rotational normal stuff.

The point is that your version of smooth jive is slotted, however, the term smooth jive has been around since before you started using it and it has been used by people who don't specifically advocate slotted dancing (but is still perfectly smooth); so your statement that "Smooth Jive is slotted Jive" is therefore, just your opinion.

[philsmove]

This poll is about
The name of OUR dance
and we are pretty much agreed its Modern Jive

But maybe we need a new poll
What word(s) best describe the name of MY dance

I persnally do like Smooth Jive
apart from anything else, is sounds nice

[Gav]

This poll is about
The name of OUR dance
and we are pretty much agreed its Modern Jive

But maybe we need a new poll
What word(s) best describe the name of MY dance

That would make it much easier...

Lindy Hop

[clevedonboy]

That would make it much easier...

Lindy Hop

Balboa for me
or if one insists on descriptions
Enthusiastic
Energetic
Connected
Cooooooool

[Minnie M]

Balboa for me
or if one insists on descriptions
Enthusiastic
Energetic
Connected
Cooooooool

I hate Balboa - too UCP for me, and most guys tread on my toes (even when I am following correctly) plus, no space for music interpretation. don't believe it is anything like you describe and certainly NOT energetic, it is a very slow alternative to fast lindy

[SPROGGS]

I hate Balboa - too UCP for me, and most guys tread on my toes (even when I am following correctly) plus, no space for music interpretation.

Me too it looks dreadful...

[Lee Bartholomew]

Me too it looks dreadful...

Dancing is not meant to look great, It's about how it feels to you and your partner.

Balboa is a great dance if done correctly. As Minnie says, It is very UPC and if men dont lead correct they will tread on toes alot.

Have a watch

Paul is a great teacher too. Done a couple of lessons with him.

[Minnie M]

is known to be the best BAL teacher in the UK - always starts his beginner class telling students that the dance is "chest" led

As Lee said when done properly it is good, Dan makes it look so easy (check out the link on Dan's name) - but unfortunately not many do

BTW Balboa is close hold, BalSwing has the 'jive/swing' moves

[Gav]

BTW Balboa is close hold, BalSwing has the 'jive/swing' moves

I don't like Balboa much, it was designed for packed dance halls and fast music where there was just no way that you could swing out at all and basically consists of close hold, a regular footwork pattern and not much room for anything else.

Bal-swing on the other hand is great . It's still UCP (and I respect that some people aren't comfortable with that), but it blends the cool Balboa footwork and hold with some of the more appropriate Lindy moves; allowing you to dance to max speed swing music without needing hospital treatment.
HOWEVER (and it is a big however), the first time I saw a couple doing it, I described it as controlled stumbling because that's what it looks like. but that's like comparing a first week cerocer with Simon & Nicole (for example); Just because you've seen people making it look bad, doesn't mean it can't look good.

[djtrev]

Dancing is not meant to look great, .

Sorry but I certainly don't agree with that.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Sorry but I certainly don't agree with that.

I should have put SOME styles of dancing is not ment to look great. Balboa is one of those dances. I remember a quote (but I can't remember who by) "If someone stands out whilst dancing Balboa, then they are not dancing Balboa" (or something along them lines)

[clevedonboy]

I hate Balboa - too UCP for me, and most guys tread on my toes (even when I am following correctly) plus, no space for music interpretation. don't believe it is anything like you describe and certainly NOT energetic, it is a very slow alternative to fast lindy

UCP yes - that's the point
Guys treading on toes - bad dancers
Musical Interpretation - sorry disagree completely you obviously aren't seeing the same dancers that I do
Energetic - it most certainly is but doesn't look frantic (see above)
Very Slow - Nope again it just doesn't look frantic

To continue with your further post (& Gav's) just about all Balboa danced is technically Bal Swing, it's just called Balboa & yes it is chest led & if you can't get over that, well it's not for you

Some stuff that isn't slow, has musical interpretation, has no toe treading & has a variety of holds



personally I love it but I agree with your right to not like it.

For what it's worth when we dance at Jazz events, it is just about always the thing that people want to talk about rather than the Lindy we dance

[clevedonboy]

I should have put SOME styles of dancing is not ment to look great. Balboa is one of those dances. I remember a quote (but I can't remember who by) "If someone stands out whilst dancing Balboa, then they are not dancing Balboa" (or something along them lines)

Pardon??????

The inferrence of your comment is that as long as the people dancing Bal are having a good time then it doesn't matter if they look rubbish & that isn't anything I've ever been taught - for sure, it's not necessarily meant to look "showy" as the shapes are generally kept tight to fit with the pace of the music, but it's always supposed to look cool.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Pardon??????

The inferrence of your comment is that as long as the people dancing Bal are having a good time then it doesn't matter if they look rubbish & that isn't anything I've ever been taught - for sure, it's not necessarily meant to look "showy" as the shapes are generally kept tight to fit with the pace of the music, but it's always supposed to look cool.

The quote I heard was this ""As soon as you start attracting attention to yourself, you [are] not doing Balboa anymore""

I can't remember who it was that said it. The same quote can be found on wikipedia, again it doesn't say where it came from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balboa_(dance)

Im by no means an expert having only done a couple of classes awhile back so you'll have much more experiance and authority on it than I do

[todd]

Wasn't LeRoc the originators of MJ? And wasn't it Robert Austin who first coined the term "Modern Jive" during the Le Jive (original) and Ceroc Franchice 'war' in the 80's after recognizing the need for a generic 'umbrella' name?

This term may be appropriate or it may not. It may be liked by some and not by others. It is, however, accepted. It has been used for 20 to 25 years as a generic name for "our dance style".

The very nature of "our dance style" means we'll be forever discussing what that style actually is - slotted, smooth, bouncey, etc. This is one of the beauties of MJ - it is adaptable and flexible. It has many slight variations.

Personaly, I have no problems with using (and do use) the term Modern Jive as new people take no time at all to understand what it is about. I constantly talk about "the slott" and "smooth" and, yet, do not try to call the dance "Smooth Jive" or "Slotted Jive"..! I simply used the smooth/slotted terms as aids to teaching lead, follow and, er, de-bounce!

Taking the slotted discussion further - is MJ slotted or not? I would say yes. It is taught slotted (think about any MJ lesson with rows, etc) save for a few moves and even most of those still end back "on the slot". So, if those moves are then executed correctly (IE as they have been taught) the dance would remain "on the slot". Lazy or weak leading/following is often a contributer to the moves becoming rotationaly - not that this is a big issue as it is still fun and people are still enjoying the social side of things - the obvious side effect is the need to increase the amount of awareness of 'floorcraft'...

Anyway - just my 2p worth!