Teaching Qualifications

[Andy McGregor]

Sadly, this happened to me but my teacher wasn't insured!

However, I'm sure there's plenty of teachers who are willing to offer support

[Lory]

3. I have no idea who appoints the 'A-listers' and it drives me mad even using the term.

I know what you mean but to my mind, if no official body has named them A-listers, and they're still generally thought of as A-listers, then it must mean that they've been acknowledged by a general consensus, which is pretty impressive.

5. Boring people make for a boring class, though they may actually be teaching the moves correctly.

I never said they wouldn't teach it correctly But if someone's searching for a 'good' teacher on the Leroc accredited database, their doesn't appear to be a way of differentiating from 'good' and merely 'correct'

7. Exactly, why does CEROC care about quality if it is not important? If quality is important then have teachers accredited is important.

Its EXTREMELY important, when your employing someone to represent your company/branding, of course one needs to know exactly what your customers are going to get and be completely confident your going to offer you customers consistency and reliability!

I feel like your trying to gather all the independents together, to form an alternative brand to Ceroc, under the blanket heading of LeRoc. So the customers then only have two choices, Ceroc or LeRoc.

I'm sorry but in a nutshell, it appears to me that nobody's crying out for this but that LeRoc just wants to elevate themselves to a 'more important' position, by scare-mongering people into thinking, if your teacher hasn't been accredited by 'us' then your in grave danger!

The Federation stresses that once accredited, you can teach a move in a manner of your choosing with the golden rule of consistency.

And this reads to me that once you've attained your LeRoc stamp, you can go off and do it your own way anyway.

Looking to the future, if it escalated, it could be that people wouldn't be allowed to teach without this certificate, which would leave LeRoc in a very powerful position.

Or maybe i'm just being very cynical and suspicious

[Lory]

BTW, does LeRoc make money out of this?

How much does it cost to do the course, take the exam, get the certificate and get ones name on the list?

and does one have to renew the the certificate on an annual basis?

[philsmove]

I feel like your trying to gather all the independents together, to form an alternative brand to Ceroc, under the blanket heading of LeRoc. So the customers then only have two choices, Ceroc or LeRoc.
.

Independants are just that, independant, and are unlikly to warm to the idia of any orgainsation teling them what to do

My own impression is that many independents are aware they are losing ground to Ceroc, they are also concerned, as any one can use the name Leroc, with out any ability to teach, the image of Leroc can easly be damaged

Instead of encouraging teachers to operate to a higher standard, The Leroc Federation are trying to make it difficult / impossible to teach Leroc with out their qualifaction, by persuading venues to only use Leroc Federation qualified teachers

I cant see this being successful, while encouraging teachers to improve their skills is an excellent idea, I think the idea of try to make a teaching qualification mandatory, will be counter productive

[Martin]

Some really good contributions to the thread since I last posted.

The LeRoc federation does not employ anyone, its job is be an official examination and accreditation body for Modern Jive, nothing more.

If this is so, and the job of the LeRoc Federation is to be an official examination and accreditation body for modern jive, the federation needs to provide something that is highly desired by MJ teachers.

Would a current CEROC teacher highly desire the extra offered by the LeRoc federation, if not why not?

Would an experienced independant teacher highly desire it, if not why not?

How does a CEROC teacher explain to thier students that being LeRoc federation accredited makes them a better teacher?

How does an experienced independant teacher working for Borland enterprises (only an example, as I know Simon) explain to thier students, that being LeRoc federation accredited, makes them a better teacher?

Is LeRoc Federation too specific a name, to those who have named thier company another name or work for a company with a different name?

If it is not highly desired by teachers who are recognised as providing a good service to the MJ world, is it's only use to give a bare minimum qualification to teachers who are wanting to start to teach MJ, but are not in a company who offer structure and training?

[Lory]

Independants are just that, independant, and are unlikly to warm to the idia of any orgainsation teling them what to do

I agree but what happens if venues feel threatened into using only LeRoc accredited teachers, they will have no choice and I can see it being the beginning of a long slippery slope?

My own impression is that many independents are aware they are losing ground to Ceroc,

If this is so, its a shame At the moment, independents have the ability to be unique, to offer something different and start new trends etc. and I think this should be encouraged and celebrated!

They have an advantage over Ceroc, (unless they want to copy the exact formula and compete, like for like) they can change their class on the night to suit the ability of customer. The teacher can tailor his/her teaching as he/she wishes, this would be far more difficult for a large company.

Quick question, when you talk about independents, do you mean individuals (that may run one or two nights a week or offer workshops etc) or independents, trying to start up rival franchises?

Instead of encouraging teachers to operate to a higher standard, The Leroc Federation are trying to make it difficult / impossible to teach Leroc with out their qualifaction, by persuading venues to only use Leroc Federation qualified teachers

Exactly.
As I said before, it feels as though a group of people have got together to form a body, to control the independents

I cant see this being successful, while encouraging teachers to improve their skills is an excellent idea, I think the idea of try to make a teaching qualification mandatory, will be counter productive

It seems to me it'll depend on how good they are at convincing the venues, not the teachers and definitely not the dancers!

[bigdjiver]

... Instead of encouraging teachers to operate to a higher standard, The Leroc Federation are trying to make it difficult / impossible to teach Leroc with out their qualifaction, by persuading venues to only use Leroc Federation qualified teachers

I cant see this being successful, while encouraging teachers to improve their skills is an excellent idea, I think the idea of try to make a teaching qualification mandatory, will be counter productive

I wonder if any organisation are planning to promote themselves at some stage by warning the public that many venues are using unqualified teachers?

It will only take one fatal accident to give a spokes person the chance to raise the issue on prime time TV an so harm the entire Modern Jive scene.

[Andy McGregor]

I know what you mean but to my mind, if no official body has named them A-listers, and they're still generally thought of as A-listers, then it must mean that they've been acknowledged by a general consensus, which is pretty impressive.

There have, however, been a couple of teachers listed here as "A listers" who IMHO do not belong on the list. My guess is that those people have taught at a few weekenders but have hyped themselves up so much that they are now a triumph of hype over substance. So I don't think it's as "generally consensus" as Lory suggests.

I think the A-listers are people whose names pop up all the time at weekenders, competition judging panels and lists of UK Champions. I think it is a very short list.

[Andy McGregor]

I wonder if any organisation are planning to promote themselves at some stage by warning the public that many venues are using unqualified teachers?

Carrot or stick? I think the carrot is always the route to take - especially if it's dark.

It will only take one fatal accident to give a spokes person the chance to raise the issue on prime time TV an so harm the entire Modern Jive scene.

I think a fatal accident harms any scene. No matter how it is handled. Just recently there was an horrific case of a dinghy sailor sailing with her dad who drowned because she was trapped under her dinghy and her father died of a heart attack trying to save her

I'm sanding down my dinghy at the same time thinking very hard before taking my daughters on the water.

[philsmove]

Quick question, when you talk about independents, do you mean individuals (that may run one or two nights a week or offer workshops etc) or independents, trying to start up rival franchises?

By independent I mean any one independent of Ceroc

[philsmove]

I wonder if any organisation are planning to promote themselves at some stage by warning the public that many venues are using unqualified teachers?

This is a public forum and people are already hinting, being taught by an unqualified teacher is dangerous

It will only take one fatal accident to give a spokes person the chance to raise the issue on prime time TV an so harm the entire Modern Jive scene

If you ignore fires in night clubs, dance related fatal accidents, involving the general public are virtually non existent. Well publicized car, train and sea accidents don't stop people travelling by these methods of transport.

Following a fatal accident in my former profession, every one in the industry was braced for a drop in sales , amazing we all reported a small increase, the generally consensus was people actually like doing something a little bit dangerous

[alinp]

I think the A-listers are people whose names pop up all the time at weekenders, competition judging panels and lists of UK Champions. I think it is a very short list.

That's handy

[Bubble]

Looking to the future, if it escalated, it could be that people wouldn't be allowed to teach without this certificate, which would leave LeRoc in a very powerful position.

Or maybe i'm just being very cynical and suspicious

I am suspicious too. We could get to the point where someone who is qualified with the UK Leroc Federation uses a compulsory 'qualification' scheme as a tool, to shut down rival MJ classes, on the basis that they are not using 'qualified' teachers. In that case, money, rather than teaching standards could be implicated as the driving force. If the UK Leroc Federation manages to gain sufficient influence on venues then I fear this kind of situation could be a real possibility.

BTW, does LeRoc make money out of this?

How much does it cost to do the course, take the exam, get the certificate and get ones name on the list?

and does one have to renew the the certificate on an annual basis?

I haven't yet seen any answers to these simple, but important questions

I cant see this being successful, while encouraging teachers to improve their skills is an excellent idea, I think the idea of try to make a teaching qualification mandatory, will be counter productive

Depends what you mean by 'counter productive' i.e. who would be the winners and losers in a compulsory qualification scheme?

Anyway, whatever happens, it won't affect me much. I'm only dancing MJ about once a month at the moment. If classes with unqualiified teachers are forced to close I'll just go to the freestyles; if the freestyles collapse because too few new dancers are entering MJ and insufficient numbers make them uneconomic, I'll just go to Salsa, Lindyhop, or start learning something else that's still unregulated.

[Andy McGregor]

I haven't yet seen any answers to these simple, but important questions

I did try to answer this earlier today but couldn't find the figures in my filing system. I remember that most of the cost of the exam is the cost of one year's membership of Leroc and UKA. And the UKA membership is by far the greater of the two. The examiners get a small fee for their services - I wouldn't do it for the money!

Nobody is in the UKA for the money. I think a lot of people are in it for the insurance. Speaking personally, I qualified because I thought I should get a qualification if I'm going to take teaching seriously and I'm on the national committee because I want to help make MJ bigger and better. There's no money in it for me to be anything but a qualified teacher - and we've already established that doesn't make much difference to students. Thank goodness I'm devilishly handsome as well

[eastmanjohn]

Instead of encouraging teachers to operate to a higher standard, The Leroc Federation are trying to make it difficult / impossible to teach Leroc with out their qualifaction, by persuading venues to only use Leroc Federation qualified teachers

I cant see this being successful, while encouraging teachers to improve their skills is an excellent idea, I think the idea of try to make a teaching qualification mandatory, will be counter productive

I only caught up with this thread today. I think Andy has sparked some interesting debate, but as far as I'm concerned the Federation was set up to encourage people to take teaching seriously and to take time to train and to become qualified. We also wanted people to be encouraged to use the name LeRoc and so spent time and money to ensure it was free for people to use. It is not the intention to prevent unqualified people from operating, instead we wish to encourage them to become qualified.

As pointed out by others the qualification only provides a minimum standard and the success of individual classes then depends on a whole host of other factors, aside from the teacher's ability to meet that minimum standard.

Interestingly, individuals do get a grade (pass, commended, highly commended, honours) but that grade is based solely on the performance in the exam. It does not then always reflect how successful that person's classes are. It is also not necessary for individuals to publish their grade.

[Andy McGregor]

It is not the intention to prevent unqualified people from operating, instead we wish to encourage them to become qualified.

One of the things I think isn't obvious to many members of the LeRoc Federation is that there's a huge number of dancers who have never heard of the Federation and are not even aware that there is an exam to become a teacher.

One of the things this thread has done is raise awareness of the Federation and the teaching examination.

N.B. For those of you that don't know, John Eastman was Chairman of the LeRoc Federation until last year and is still, I think, Chief Examiner.

[Lory]

We also wanted people to be encouraged to use the name LeRoc and so spent time and money to ensure it was free for people to use.

Why? .

[Andy McGregor]

Why? .

My take on this was to stop a single operator laying claim to the name and stopping eveyone else from using the name. But I could be wrong.

[bigdjiver]

http://twiangulate.com/blog/learning...-great-teacher

[eastmanjohn]

My take on this was to stop a single operator laying claim to the name and stopping eveyone else from using the name. But I could be wrong.

That's right. This was a long time ago. It was not that long after ceroc ltd had done the same thing. Remember that ceroc existed as a dance with people teaching it before ceroc ltd came into being.