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Thread: Dance Competitions

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Dance Competitions

    I can never understand why if you all pay the same money to enter these competitions, the prize money differs, and in some cases no prize money at all - if there is no prize money offered why charge an entry

    My other gripe, is why Competition organisers charge so much for spectating only (eg family & friends of competitors)


    --ooOoo--
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    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Its not the money.

    I danced with a competition judge once. She said "Nice moves".

    I had entered "Dance with a stranger" just to show off those moves.

    She had eliminated me after 30 sec.

    I would have lasted longer on a bigger floor. She had to run around it to get to me.

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Its not the money.

    I danced with a competition judge once. She said "Nice moves".

    I had entered "Dance with a stranger" just to show off those moves.

    She had eliminated me after 30 sec.

    I would have lasted longer on a bigger floor. She had to run around it to get to me.
    I don't quite understand what that has to do with my post


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    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    I don't quite understand what that has to do with my post
    It fits with the thread title.

    It is an example of just one of many non-financial gain motives for entering dance competitions.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    I can never understand why if you all pay the same money to enter these competitions, the prize money differs, and in some cases no prize money at all - if there is no prize money offered why charge an entry

    My other gripe, is why Competition organisers charge so much for spectating only (eg family & friends of competitors)
    When you write the business plan for a dance competition you realise that you're not doing it for the money. There is little or no money in running a dance competition. Especially if you are going to offer cash prizes.

    And that's before you've actually run a dance competition. Once you've done that you realise that it's a massive amout of time and effort - all for no money, sometimes less than no money!

    You have to really love dance competitions to run them.

    And you have to really love dance competitions to compete in them. You're lucky if you spend more than 10 minutes actually competing. And that's after loads and loads of practice, pain and argument! You drive half-way across the country to compete and then spend most of the day watching - apart from the competition where I spent half of the day in the loos sewing up my Sumo wrestler outfit!

    Finally, you have to love your friends and dance competitions to spectate. You spend 8 hours sat on your bottom watching dancing and eating fast food.

    Dance competitions a lot of work for everybody, cost everybody loads of money and aren't financially worth all the effort for the organisers. They're all about loving dance and loving dance competition. Try explaining that love logically to someone who doesn't feel it and they will think you've gone mad.

    Most of us do it for love. The only people who really gain are the winners who use their titles as part of their promotional efforts. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

    And, to answer the question. Dance competitions are expensive to attend because they cost a great deal to stage and we all need to chip in to cover the costs.

    Do I think there should be cash prizes? Only in the categories for professional dancers.

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    ....stuff ....
    Sorry I still don't think you have addressed what I actually asked


    --ooOoo--
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    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    I can never understand why if you all pay the same money to enter these competitions, the prize money differs, and in some cases no prize money at all - if there is no prize money offered why charge an entry

    My other gripe, is why Competition organisers charge so much for spectating only (eg family & friends of competitors)
    I suspect there's a whole host of reasons...

    here's a few I can think of, off the top of my head

    The cost of the venue hire

    Is the event is put by the organisers to make money or as a non profit making event

    how many people are entering, in relation to the prize money. If you only have 2 couples enter and the prize money comes to more than their entrance fees, then I suppose they'll use some of the spectators money.

    Are they paying the DJ's, Judges and general crew?
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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions

    I don't think I made myself very clear, so I will start again.

    I DO realise that there are many overheads involved in putting on any event and have no problem with organisers charge whatever it takes for them to make money out of it, it's called business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    I can never understand why if you all pay the same money to enter these competitions, the prize money differs, and in some cases no prize money at all - if there is no prize money offered why charge an entry.........
    Examples:-
    Competitors ALL pay £10 per person entry for three different categories BUT the prize money can and sometimes does differ for each category (or class) in fact there may not even be a cash prize in one of them ????
    It can vary so much, the winner gets a cash prize in one category, but in another placings as well or maybe none at all - but all of the competitors pay the same entry fee whichever category they enter


    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    IMy other gripe, is why Competition organisers charge so much for spectating only (eg family & friends of competitors)
    Members of family (Mums Dads etc - who obviouly NOT dancers) who are there only for the time their relative or close friend is competing. Why do they have to pay the same price as a full on dancing spectator ???


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    Sorry I still don't think you have addressed what I actually asked
    Different organsisers have different costs and have different pricing structures because they come up with diffrent ways of covering their costs.

    And they have different ideas about what will make a great competition and attract great competitors. Some people think people compete for the cash and others think they compete for the glory. And they are both right because people are different.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Mods - this is to the best of my ability an answer to the question.

    Obviously I cant talk for every competition, however I can talk for the Blackpool Modern Jive Championships.

    The money given in most cases is simply a gesture, it's the title/trophy that competitors want. Our take a chance category is aimed at fun and is a good place to start if you ever wondered what it would be like to enter a competition.

    If you take our Open for example, we give trophies and medals but also give a cheque to the winners for £500.

    I agree with Andy, organisers run a competition for the love of it not for any money.

    We look very closely at our prize money and entrance fee's; they are what we decide to charge and they are only reflected in our out goings; i'm sure you can appreciate that hiring the Blackpool Tower is expensive.

    This year we will not charge spectators to enter; however the Tower will not permit non dancing entries on the lower floors, they will need to remain in the gods; this is something we cannot change.
    We also do not charge for mum and dad to bring their kids, all our doors are manned and we would like to think that the kids would be safe.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    ...Members of family (Mums Dads etc - who obviouly NOT dancers) who are there only for the time their relative or close friend is competing. Why do they have to pay the same price as a full on dancing spectator ???
    How are you going to police the time they are there?

    I have had many happy hours dancing with "spectators".

    They take up space on seats, in food & other queues, and are more heads in the way of the view.

    Many, most?, of the competitors and spectators spen far less than the full time there. How much differential pricing can you expect?

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    If you take our Open for example, we give trophies and medals but also give a cheque to the winners for £500.
    I do not believe, that people who enter the open will do so to win 500 pounds..

    My belief is that they enter to "get the glory" - nice trophies and medals help.

    When you reflect upon the time, effort and hard cash in hiring dance spaces, buying costumes (even silly ones like sumo suits that need sewing up), maybe getting private lessons etc. You have to think, people do it for fun, for possible glory or to show what they can do.

    Will money to win, attract more competitors, maybe one or two who are confident to win, but then again maybe not.

    The people who win that 500 pounds, have probably spent several times that in preperation, costumes, accomadation, travel etc.

    One dance comp I like in Canberra Aussie, is run as a non profit event, they do give prize money, but this is given by sponsours of the event.

    I do not know of many Comps that "make money" from the comp, mostly they are there to provide a service.

    I do know that many people put a lot of effort in to run a comp and there is simply not enough money out there in the comp world to give to everyone who gives of thier time a fair wage for this.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    How are you going to police the time they are there?

    I have had many happy hours dancing with "spectators".

    They take up space on seats, in food & other queues, and are more heads in the way of the view.

    Many, most?, of the competitors and spectators spen far less than the full time there. How much differential pricing can you expect?
    I did say "non-dancing" spectators - we dont at the moment have many because of the cost.

    Example: If a young dancer was competing and his non-dancing parents wanted to watch it would cost an average of £50 for them both at present.

    As there wouldn't be many like this, they could be banded and as Achaeco at Blackpool said, sat upstairs away from the dancing area - they could do that at BritRock too


    --ooOoo--
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    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions

    By the way I must complement ALL the organisers of dance competitions (all styles)

    Having worked with Andy McG at BritRock I am aware of all the massive prep before the day, the ongoing work during the day and the flack they get after.

    It is a MASSIVE undertaking and they ALL do a fantastic job - they have a large team of helpers including many behind the scene, at least two DJs and a team of judges, plus the frontman (of course)

    I am not knocking them in the least, in fact as I say above, admire them for taking it on.

    It must be very difficult to get the pricing right - not sure if I would like that job anyway, but it was just an observation I made and wanted it to aired on the forum.


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    I do not believe, that people who enter the open will do so to win 500 pounds..

    My belief is that they enter to "get the glory" - nice trophies and medals help.

    When you reflect upon the time, effort and hard cash in hiring dance spaces, buying costumes (even silly ones like sumo suits that need sewing up), maybe getting private lessons etc. You have to think, people do it for fun, for possible glory or to show what they can do.

    Will money to win, attract more competitors, maybe one or two who are confident to win, but then again maybe not.

    The people who win that 500 pounds, have probably spent several times that in preperation, costumes, accomadation, travel etc.

    One dance comp I like in Canberra Aussie, is run as a non profit event, they do give prize money, but this is given by sponsours of the event.

    I do not know of many Comps that "make money" from the comp, mostly they are there to provide a service.

    I do know that many people put a lot of effort in to run a comp and there is simply not enough money out there in the comp world to give to everyone who gives of thier time a fair wage for this.

    Like i said, the money side of it is simply a gesture, a gesture for the years of hard work and commitment to competing.
    Dancers do want the title more than anything, dancers often ask " when will the UK have a ranking system in place like WCS" They want to be the best.

    If any competition organisers would like to talk about this please pm or email me, it can be done we just need to work off the same scoring system and share the results.

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Dancers do want the title more than anything, dancers often ask " when will the UK have a ranking system in place like WCS" They want to be the best.

    If any competition organisers would like to talk about this please pm or email me, it can be done we just need to work off the same scoring system and share the results.
    Good luck on that

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Like i said, the money side of it is simply a gesture, a gesture for the years of hard work and commitment to competing.
    Indeed, a very nice "bonus".

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    Re: Dance Competitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    I did say "non-dancing" spectators - we dont at the moment have many because of the cost.

    Example: If a young dancer was competing and his non-dancing parents wanted to watch it would cost an average of £50 for them both at present.

    As there wouldn't be many like this, they could be banded and as Achaeco at Blackpool said, sat upstairs away from the dancing area - they could do that at BritRock too
    Yes, thats fine in venues that can support this, but this is hard for those that do not have an independant seating area and limited space. I had this same issue at the Ceroc Scotland Champs last year, my brother and his girlfriend wanted to come and watch and help with the children. We had to pay the full £25 price each of course, not that I mind for a charity event (and a full day at that) but I think if something can be arranged for the evening and the finals - you would get a good number of people who would like to come along to spectate for a much smaller entry fee. Franck and Sheena are already looking into this for this years charity comp, but Ingliston is a small venue with no seperate seating area and numbers would have to be very limited - so it may not be worthwhile to do in this case, as you run the risk of too many taking advantage, attempting to pay at the door and being turned away to avoid overcrowding. (or simply having a terrible time trying to watch from behind a pillar)


    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco
    If any competition organisers would like to talk about this please pm or email me, it can be done we just need to work off the same scoring system and share the results.
    You don't need the same scoring system, you simply need an organised independant scoring system to merge the results into a ranking system. Results can be published on an independant web page.

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