How to get into WCS?

[Phil_dB]

I would like to learn to West Coast Swing.

Living in Surrey, I think the only organisation near me is Paul & Cat's.

Twickenham is the nearest, but i've heard from many people that the place is incredibly cliquey. Doesn't sound like much fun for a newcomer, - let alone a WCS beginner-newcomer.

I'm presuming their new venue in Croydon will contain much of the same crowd.

As far as I'm aware there's nowhere else near me?

Is WCS really this difficult to get into? I didnt expect to have a choice of 3 different venues every night of the week like MJ, - but still.... - this it?


I guess one option it to persuade a friend to join me at Twickenham, and we can stick together and practice all night...

How did you get into WCS?

[Andy McGregor]

I would like to learn to West Coast Swing.

The very first step is to have facial botox treatment to stop you smiling by accident

There's two versions of WCS. The one where you simply dance with a look of concentration and the one where you dance with a look of constipation

Advanced WCS dancers can be easily spotted when they walk through the door at MJ dances because they look like they've just smelt something horrible

My own, personal, opinion is that WCS is a great social dance that's somehow been hijacked by a group of dance snobs who think it's all about competing.

They're not all snobs and there's plenty of nice people dancing WCS. They nice ones must have very thick skins or have some other method of rising above the other stuff that seems to come with WCS.

My advice is to get some private WCS lessons before you start. After half a dozen lessons you won't feel completely useless at your first group class and will be able to join in with the social dancing.

[Ickle Sue]

The very first step is to have facial botox treatment to stop you smiling by accident

There's two versions of WCS. The one where you simply dance with a look of concentration and the one where you dance with a look of constipation

It does take some concentration & I really hope I don't ever look constipated

My own, personal, opinion is that WCS is a great social dance that's somehow been hijacked by a group of dance snobs who think it's all about competing.

There are some like this but not all!

My advice is to get some private WCS lessons before you start. After half a dozen lessons you won't feel completely useless at your first group class and will be able to join in with the social dancing.

Rather than paying for private lessons, surely the best thing to do is a taster to see whether this is a dance for you?

I went to Twick with a friend once (last yr sometime) & yes I felt out of my depth but it was a real eye opener! Watched people quite a lot.
Before I went I heard the same about people being cliquey but I have found the same with MJ venues etc.

[Lee Bartholomew]

There is a very very small portion of WCS snobs. Out of all the WCS dancers I know, I could name about 5.

WCS is a fun dance. It's often seen as misrible by those who can not do it or Jive teachers who feel threatended by it.

Don't let the reputation non-WCS dancers have built around WCS fool you.

Getting in to WCS? Just attend a beginners WCS course. Most classes do them on a 4-6 week rotating basis. I would always say go to week 1 if poss as they norm start from the ground up and will confusing going in at week 5

Don't let the fact that it's BASIC footwork fool you in to thinking it's hard. It's just walking.

Ask other dancers / teachers / crew for help. most are friendly enough

Don't listen to dancers who say WCS is too hard, there are only 4 basic patterns to learn.

Everything in WCS is built off a suger push, Left side pass, Right side pass and whip. Master these and understand the concept of these 4 patterns before moving up to intermediate classes. They are your foundation. Nothing works if they don't

Stick with it. Like Jive, it tends to 'click' after a few weeks.

Good Luck

[Chef]

I would like to learn to West Coast Swing.

Living in Surrey, I think the only organisation near me is Paul & Cat's.

I think that is true at present but I hear that a guy called Paul Farrell (PaulF on the forum) will open a class in Surrey in April. I know Surrey is a big place so it might be worth contacting him directly to ask for more details.

Twickenham is the nearest, but i've heard from many people that the place is incredibly cliquey. Doesn't sound like much fun for a newcomer, - let alone a WCS beginner-newcomer.

Well they are a long established club and they have pursued the competative side of the dance extensively. So they know each other very well so, like any other club, it can seem cliquey from the outside. I know some of the regulars there and think they are really nice people but can understand how daunting they can seem, en masse, to a beginner. I would advise anyone for them to go along a few times and make your own mind up.

I'm presuming their new venue in Croydon will contain much of the same crowd.

Cannot comment. I have only been to the nearby class at Petts Wood on the Thursday evenings. I have recived an email today from Cat and Paul saying that the class at Croydon is closing down but that another one at South Norwood will be starting up. Perhaps South Norwood is closer and will attract some more beginners and that would make you feel more comfortable to start with.

As far as I'm aware there's nowhere else near me?

LIke I said above. Check out PaulF and his plans for a Surrey class. Paul and Cat do monthly workshops at Windsor that have a very good beginners teaching stream.

Is WCS really this difficult to get into? I didnt expect to have a choice of 3 different venues every night of the week like MJ, - but still.... - this it?

WCS is only slighlty more difficult to get into than MJ but a lot of us seem to forget how difficult we found MJ when we first started. In reallity there only appears to me to be 4 basic patterns for both men and women but you really need to be able to do all aspects of these patterns properly. After that everything else sits on these foundations very securely and is easy to understand as only minor variations. Like most things, if the foundations are weak, everything else sits shakily above.

Having a regular night each week is a major help. In my early days of WCS I could only get to monthly workshops and found that I didn't make much progress. It was only when I had a weekly class that I found I was able to a) stop counting out loud to myself b) think of another pattern as I came to the end of the current one c) relax d) smile. There are more and more classes and workshops going on all the time over the country. If you think it is sparse now you should have been around two years ago.

I guess one option it to persuade a friend to join me at Twickenham, and we can stick together and practice all night...

This could be a double edged sword. At least you have a partner who you can be reasonably sure is not looking at you and thinking "what is this dick doing" but is probably thinking "Doh I just screwed up, it was me, I am sure it was me". On the other hand a beginner partner can be quite a handful for an expereinced partner to deal with as they do unexpected or unhelpful things. To me, a beginner leader trying to learn with a beginner follower sounds like a recipe for frustration and conflict (although I think even experienced dance couples need a referee).

My advice would be to try as many different classes as you can. Somewhere you will find your perfect combination of teacher, dancer level, and dancer freindlyness.

How did you get into WCS

I saw Robert Cordoba and Deborah Szekely dancing WCS cabaret at Rebel Yell in 2002 or 2003 and it changed what I wanted forever. Before that I was mostly interested in MJ as a social event where you only needed to be good enough to have women ask you to dance and the music was there to hide the noise of feet on the floor as long as it wasn't too loud to get in the way of chatting up women. After the Rebel Yell I wanted to dance well, to the music and the rest didn't matter. It wasn't for 2-3 years after that that I found WCS workshops that I could get to once a month. It is only in the last year that I have been able to get to weekly classes and feel I made any real progress.

[Lee Bartholomew]

{stuff}

Oh and final bit of advice....

listen to those who have been there and done it, not those who are anti it

[Dottie]

Why not try one of Paul and Cat's Windsor workshops. There is one this Sunday and there is a beginner's option. People travel from all over the country to attend these. You may meet people there who attend the weekly venues you mention.

The Croydon class sounds like an ideal opportunity. I think maybe you should also try the Twickenham venue for yourself. You may have a completely different experience to people you have spoken to. A lot of criticism is often hearsay.

Most of the better dancers have commited a lot of time, money and effort in improving their dance so it is understandable that when they are at social events they tend to dance together.

In my experience it is a fabulous dance to learn - and mostly the better dancers are very generous with their help.

Am not going to rise to the bait of AM's post!

[Ickle Sue]

Stick with it. Like Jive, it tends to 'click' after a few weeks.

But WEEKS??? I've been waiting for it to 'click' for longer than that & I am still waiting . . . . shucks what am I doing wrong!?

I agree with Lee about going to a weekly classes & Cat and Paul - I personally cannot fault their teaching & I don't think anyone can!

[Ickle Sue]

Am not going to rise to the bait of AM's post!

I too should have rised above it!

[robd]

I think mikeyr also does a weekly class at marlow - never been so cannot comment on how good/bad it may be either.

Twickenham is the most well established regular WCS class. That's good as it means the highest concentration of experienced dancers are in attendance there. You'll see WCS being danced to a high standard. It's bad as I'd imagine that can be intimidating for a newcomer (just as an MJ night can be). Personally I also find it is sometimes a bit too busy for the available space leading to a few floorcraft issues.

I don't believe Croydon had that many of the Twickenham regulars there based on feedback from others who have been (not been myself) and have no reason to suppose South Norwood will be any different

Personally I'd suggest going to one of the monthly Windsor workshops run by Cat - there's a beginner's hour for everyone then the classes are split into different experience levels. I think my WCS development benefitted from my attending 2 or 3 workshops based around the basics/fundamentals before moving on to anything more advanced. It meant I could dance freestyle happily (albeit with a limited repertoire)

[Andy McGregor]

Oh and final bit of advice....

listen to those who have been there and done it, not those who are anti it

Am not going to rise to the bait of AM's post!

I was tongue-in-cheek about the not smiling thing. Although it is entirely true, it's understandable when you're concentrating.

I'm not anti-WCS. I'm anti-snobbery in dance and anti-dance elitism. I'm very much pro-dance and for people trying different kinds of dance. If people aren't very good at dance they are still dancing and that is a great thing. However, I've overheard a well-known WCS teacher being VERY derogatory about dancers in a class. And I've heard reports that particular teacher can be quite rude to dance students - that is not the way to promote what is supposed to be a social dance

I support all sorts of dance including WCS. I was instrumental in getting WCS as an exhibition category at Britrock and you wouldn't believe the way that flushed out the WCS snobs and elitists to have a pop at us! We had more controversy and people giving me a hard time about the organisation/rules/results/etc than we had about the whole of the rest of the competition!

As I said above, give West Coast Swing a try. It's a great social dance. But I'm being completely honest when I say that there's a snobbish element amongst WCS that makes cliquey MJ venues seem positively evangelical and inclusive - some people who teach WCS seem to want to hide this but I've had emails forwarded to me that were from WCS teachers that were extremely big headed and snobby

On the other hand, Paul Farrel is a great guy and I'd recommend any night where he is teaching

[Andy McGregor]

I too should have rised above it!

I thought your answer was perfect. You had the intelligence to understand the humour in my post and give an articulate answer

[Lory]

My advice is to get some private WCS lessons before you start. After half a dozen lessons you won't feel completely useless at your first group class and will be able to join in with the social dancing.

I think this is quite a good idea.

There's a lot of subtleties to leading WCS and some of them are not so obvious when viewing from a distance

I think having a a good solid grasp of the basics, will stand you in good stead for all future classes, after that, 'almost' everything you learn will some sort of variation!

I'll give you another bashing at Camber if you like

[Lee Bartholomew]

The other thing to remember is it is going to feel compleatly alien to Jive. Almost everything you learn in Jive has to be 'unlearnt' to some extent.

That being said though, you will find what you learn in WCS transfers really well in to Jive.

Think of WCS classes as Jive classes but with alot more talk on technique than on doing 'Moves' then you will be alittle more prepared

[Phil_dB]

Thanks for all replies so far!

Bit busy to reply properly at the moment.

Appreciate your honest posts Andy.

Dottie - I'm already booked up on another workshop this Sunday - as I would've done that.

Lory - a bashing will be fandabulous!!!!!!

Let me know if your usual hourly rate of a double bacardi & coke has changed.

[zimbabwean]

I think mikeyr also does a weekly class at marlow - never been so cannot comment on how good/bad it may be either.

I have been to both and must admit the Marlow crowd are far more sympathetic / friendlier to beginners and make you feel a lot more welcome.

But that’s only my personal opinion

[Caro]

Twickenham is the nearest, but i've heard from many people that the place is incredibly cliquey.

Stop being silly now and come and join the clique

[Paul F]

I think that is true at present but I hear that a guy called Paul Farrell (PaulF on the forum) will open a class in Surrey in April. I know Surrey is a big place so it might be worth contacting him directly to ask for more details.

Well it's been a while since I have been on here. Just logged on and saw this thread so I thought I would post.

When it comes to Twickenham I would say just go along and see for yourself. Yes there are a number of people there who all started with WCS at the same time and have experienced a lot of the same environments. Naturally they will all be friendly which may be perceived as cliquey but I dont think this is the case. Difficult to say as I know most of them (although, living in Caterham means I dont get there at all these days).

As for classes in Surrey it is true that I am opening a new one. After previously running my own class in Farnborough I swore I would never do it again due to the time thats needed to commit to it.
The trouble is, without giving people multiple opportunities to dance per week they simply dont stick with it and end up drifting away. It's for that reason that I am launching my own class in Godstone, Surrey on April 12th.

Recently I have been having a think of how we can help beginners as much as possible. What I have done is to, firstly, create a booklet that will be handed to every beginner who comes to one of my classes or indeed any classes should other operators find it useful. It explains what the dance is, the syllabus I teach to and some 'golden rules' which i get dancers to try and think of from the start.
Also, I am creating a DVD which shows people the basic patterns. I will hand this out to beginners as well. Im hoping that having that recap material will help people as WCS does rely on a small core group of movements and rhythms.

Lastly, I have redevloped my website, not so much as a place to push classes etc but as a tool to introduce people to WCS. A large part of it is devoted to introducing the dance and to explaining to people how a regular class works. From feedback theses are the key things that new dancers have told me they need to know.
It's not live quite yet as it is about to go through a bit of testing but I will probably have it live in the next 2 weeks. Im not going to post the url here.

I am hoping beyond hope that all of this helps spread WCS. The promise is there that it can really take off but it needs structure and help. I will try my best. If it doesnt work, Im not sure what else I could do.

[mikeyr]

I think mikeyr also does a weekly class at marlow - never been so cannot comment on how good/bad it may be either ~snip~

Twickenham is the most well established regular WCS class. That's good as it means the highest concentration of experienced dancers are in attendance there. You'll see WCS being danced to a high standard. It's bad as I'd imagine that can be intimidating for a newcomer (just as an MJ night can be). Personally I also find it is sometimes a bit too busy for the available space leading to a few floorcraft issues. ~snip~

The good News If you live and work in the South/South East of England is, there are now 11 Established regular weekly classes (not courses) offering beginners the opportunity to get into the dance. And the progression path is there with at least 2 regular monthly WCS workshops being offered by established WCS instructors. And it is continuing to grow!

Also in the same geographical area, there are now quite a few regular WCS freestyles 3 Monthly and even 1 Weekly.

Now is a great time to get into WCS, it is now starting to gain critical mass.

On the down side, because of its Struture/Character, it does take a little extra effort. But then you get out what you put in!

~snip~
As I said above, give West Coast Swing a try. It's a great social dance. But I'm being completely honest when I say that there's a snobbish element amongst WCS that makes cliquey MJ venues seem positively evangelical and inclusive - some people who teach WCS seem to want to hide this but I've had emails forwarded to me that were from WCS teachers that were extremely big headed and snobby ~snip~

I agree that WCS has had a bad Rep in the past, but the new generation coming through have been working very hard to re-establish it as a social dance that is fun & friendly first!

On the other hand, Paul Farrel is a great guy and I'd recommend any night where he is teaching

I'd also recommend Paul Farrel's class at Petts Woods, A friendlier group in any dance would be hard to find.

I have been to both and must admit the Marlow crowd are far more sympathetic / friendlier to beginners and make you feel a lot more welcome.

But that’s only my personal opinion

Thank You! It's a core part of our approach!

When it comes to Twickenham I would say just go along and see for yourself. ~snip~

Recently I have been having a think of how we can help beginners as much as possible. What I have done is to, firstly, create a booklet that will be handed to every beginner who comes to one of my classes or indeed any classes should other operators find it useful. It explains what the dance is, the syllabus I teach to and some 'golden rules' which i get dancers to try and think of from the start. ~snip~

WCS does rely on a small core group of movements and rhythms ~snip~.

I am hoping beyond hope that all of this helps spread WCS. The promise is there that it can really take off but it needs structure and help. I will try my best. If it doesnt work, Im not sure what else I could do.

To anybody thinking of starting WCS, it is not as hard as you think! Most of the teachers have experience in MJ and established an MJ crossover approach that means its easier than ever to learn. Check out your nearest class and give it a go!

[NZ Monkey]

I would like to learn to West Coast Swing.

Living in Surrey, I think the only organisation near me is Paul & Cat's.

Twickenham is the nearest, but i've heard from many people that the place is incredibly cliquey. Doesn't sound like much fun for a newcomer, - let alone a WCS beginner-newcomer.

.....snip.........

I guess one option it to persuade a friend to join me at Twickenham, and we can stick together and practice all night...

How did you get into WCS?

Twickenham was the place I learned, having come virtually fresh off the boat from NZ when I first showed up and knowing nobody.

Granted, this was a few years ago now and it was the only option for learning WCS in London at the time, but even so it had a similar reputation for cliquiness then as it does now. I found everyone there to be very warm and welcoming, even so far as me wishing they'd leave me alone so I could watch all the people who knew what they were doing in freestyle.

Now, it's possible things have changed since I was there as the scene is a lot bigger now. I am quite certain that you won't find teaching nearly as good anywhere else in the UK though, or a higher concentration of inspiring dancers to dance with.

Given that Cat and Paul's venture is so close, I think you owe it yourself to disregard what others tell you about the place and at least try it out for yourself. I suggest not setting yourself up as some sort of victim and be prepared to do most of the asking for a little while though - or else the rumors may become a self-fulfilling prophesy of sorts. If people don't know who you are then are less likely to ask you to dance, but that's the same everywhere, and not just true in one location and one dance style. If you find it cliquey and don't like the atmosphere after a month or two, then you haven't lost anything and you have other options.

There are plenty of examples of others offering alternatives which you may find more appealing, and kudos to those organizers for doing something right if that's the case. I'd make certain for yourself that your closest venue (with world-class teachers no less!) isn't for you before writing it off first though. You owe that much to yourself surely?