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Thread: Metropolis - The Aftermath

  1. #41
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    To clarify : "who'd have thought it"..."the jury is now out" and "telling us" sounds like a plea to others for agreement and solidarity rather than simply personal opinion - it gave an edge to the review. But hey, I gave the review overall an A++ . Did no one notice ? The "Agenda" comment was only pointing out how that could be taken by others, including me - especially when it comes in a first post.
    EN's comment refers to the quote on JA's site of:

    We are acknowleged by dancers as the UK's No1 dance Weekend organiser!

    Which is total rubbish of course. I mean when was a poll ever conducted of all the dancers in the UK as to which dance organization ran the best weekend event?? Never is the answer. And if there ever was one by sheer volume and longevity the Caister Soul weekenders would win hands down.

    If someone had a mind to contact the trades description governing body over it they would have to prove that claim or else withdraw the statement because manifestly, as an example, that was not the view of many people attending the Skeggie w/e they ran.

    So if he was persuaded into attending this w/e on the back of that statement and was disappointed, IMO he has every right to pull them up on it in his review.

  2. #42
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post



    I think you'll find I've never had a go at anybody's newbie post - it's only the dullards that I like to have a poke at...

  3. #43
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    it's only the dullards that I like to have a poke at...
    I don't think Val would be too impressed with that description

  4. #44
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post

    So if he was persuaded into attending this w/e on the back of that statement and was disappointed, IMO he has every right to pull them up on it in his review.
    I totally agree, and there is nothing in anything i said that stops me from doing so.

  5. #45
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post

    Oh behave - its a discussion forum and i have replied to one post on this subject due to it being a virgin post, but the tone of the post does not make me think this is some shrinking violet that will run crying at the use of a word like "agenda" . And the implication of your post is that i would need to wait a while when these new people come in before i can accuse them of an agenda? how many posts does the "speak really nicely in case they run off" period last for ? 10 ? 100 ? until you say so ?

    If its Wes when do we get an apology ?


  6. #46
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I don't think Val would be too impressed with that description
    Fortunately she's more impressed with the poking than the description..

  7. #47
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Because I'm bored and want to use that icon:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    EN's comment refers to the quote on JA's site of:

    We are acknowleged by dancers as the UK's No1 dance Weekend organiser!
    From www.ceroc.com:
    Our stylish dance ... is a fusion of Salsa, Ballroom, Hip Hop, Tango and Jive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    If someone had a mind to contact the trades description governing body over it.

  8. #48
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Because I'm bored and want to use that icon:


    From www.ceroc.com:






    Well, I obviously don't expect you to know anything about real dancing but...

    On the Ceroc intranet there are over 750 documented moves and within them you will find mambo steps, manhattans, cha cha, many syncopated foot patterns, body ripples and body popping, and many figures and movements that are very similar in style to salsa and jive moves. There are also triple steps and whips which have a basis in swing and close body holds and movements that derive from Blues. As for your beloved Tango you will no doubt be aware that Rondes are regularly taught as a style point which have their basis in ballroom and in the Lapiz in tango, as well as Ochos and of course the Columbian which is a lateral foot pattern derived in part from the circular Giro in tango...

    Do you want to go and put your head back in the sand now?
    Last edited by Rocky; 19th-February-2010 at 09:34 PM.

  9. #49
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    We are acknowleged by dancers as the UK's No1 dance Weekend organiser!
    I acknowledge them as the UK's No1 Dance Weekend Organiser.

    Now all they need is one more person to say that and they are truly acknowledged as the UK's No1 Dance Weekend Organiser by dancers.

    Nowhere does it say all dancers.

  10. #50
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    I've experience going on a forum and after one post having three people claim I must be a 'plant' for some organization I had no interest in. I didn't post there again.

    I think a forum (ie an assembly for open discussion) is best when it encourages the largest number of people to contribute. I think this is true even if some people only post with a hidden agenda. Who cares? If someone only ever posts negative reviews of Ceroc/JA, it becomes obvious, and their opinion loses weight.

    Whether the poster was a plant or a newbie, suggesting they have an agenda is likely to discourage further posting, which is a shame.

  11. #51
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    On the Ceroc intranet there are over 750 documented moves and within them you will find mambo steps, manhattans, cha cha, many syncopated foot patterns, body ripples and body popping, and many figures and movements that are very similar in style to salsa and jive moves...
    Our stylish dance ... is a fusion of Salsa, Ballroom, Hip Hop, Tango and Jive.

    I would be pushed to agree with that statement. Ceroc is a simplified form of swing. Most dance forms borrow moves from other forms, same as languages borrow words. But the fact that the Israels call bowling 'bowling' doesn't make Hebrew a fusion of ancient Hebrew and English.

    The Ceroc intranet may list a bunch of borrowed moves. But looking at how people dance, its still just simplified swing. (ie swing/jive/rocknroll -> c'est roc)

  12. #52
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    Nowhere does it say all dancers.
    I don't like to disagree with Lou. But this time she's wrong. The claim that is being made by JA is an "all embracing claim". By saying "dancers" without qualification they are claiming that it is all dancers. Not even a majority of dancers. It's not an "8 out of 10 cats" situation. JA's claim is that all dancers think JA weekenders are the best. It only takes one dancer to disagree to prove JA's claim wrong.

    Who will be that one dancer? Sounds biblical to me

  13. #53
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Amir View Post
    Our stylish dance ... is a fusion of Salsa, Ballroom, Hip Hop, Tango and Jive.

    I would be pushed to agree with that statement.


    MJ is not a stylish dance. However, it can be danced with style

    AT is a stylish dance. However, it can be danced badly by people with no style

    Point? You expect me to have a point?

  14. #54
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Amir View Post
    I think a forum (ie an assembly for open discussion) is best when it encourages the largest number of people to contribute.
    I agree. Everyone has an equal right to an opinion, even if its not the same as yours.

    I think this is true even if some people only post with a hidden agenda. Who cares?
    I care! ....Its the 'hidden' bit I'm opposed to. I don't like people trying to pull the wool over my eyes!

    If someone only ever posts negative reviews of Ceroc/JA, it becomes obvious, and their opinion loses weight.
    This is true but it can take time (and a little sassy) to work out the connections sometimes and 'what' the hidden agendas actually are

    Whether the poster was a plant or a newbie, suggesting they have an agenda is likely to discourage further posting, which is a shame.
    Absolutely! I'd much rather give the benefit of doubt to a newbie poster and instead of launching in with accusations, encourage them to post MORE, then 'if' there is an agenda, its sure to start to reveal itself!

    Their first post will be always be there and 'if' they end up showing themselves to have an agenda, you can go back to their first post and go Ahhhh I always suspected there was more to 'this'

    And if not, we've gained ourselves another valuable forumite!
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  15. #55
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I acknowledge them as the UK's No1 Dance Weekend Organiser......
    It is all relative..............

    It's more about what and how many weekenders you have been on.

    Personally I think the Americans do it better, but there again the UK swing scene have excellent weekenders. Rhythm Riot has been going for about 20 years and I think it is the best of its kind.


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  16. #56
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I don't like to disagree with Lou. But this time she's wrong. The claim that is being made by JA is an "all embracing claim". By saying "dancers" without qualification they are claiming that it is all dancers.
    Of course they are not - what about dancers in other countries, of other styles, dancers who don't go on weekenders? dancers who have been dead for 40 years? ...its ridiculous to suggest they meant ALL dancers with that statement. The only possible meaning you can gain from the term "dancers" there is "dancers who, on visiting our weekender, said we were number one". So whats the problem with it ?

  17. #57
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I don't like to disagree with Lou. But this time she's wrong. The claim that is being made by JA is an "all embracing claim". By saying "dancers" without qualification they are claiming that it is all dancers.
    I tend to take this kind of thing very literally, so I read it as 'more than one dancer'. It is intended to imply a great deal more, of course, but for the statement to be literally true, it only needs to refer to two (or more) dancers. Being me, I read it, took it literally, and thought "That's not a very impressive claim."

  18. #58
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    It is all relative..............

    It's more about what and how many weekenders you have been on.
    Exactly, my dear Minnie. I've only ever been to one Weekender. But the quote doesn't even say anything about the dancers in question being the sort of dancers who are frequent weekender attendees! I'm with Stray. It's a vague claim. Bless Rocky for getting annoyed with it.

  19. #59
    Registered User ChrisU's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Amir View Post

    Whether the poster was a plant or a newbie, suggesting they have an agenda is likely to discourage further posting, which is a shame.
    Thanks Amir for a simple statement.

    ChrisU

  20. #60
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Metropolis - The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I acknowledge them as the UK's No1 Dance Weekend Organiser.
    Now all they need is one more person to say that and they are truly acknowledged as the UK's No1 Dance Weekend Organiser by dancers.
    Well as you've only been on one weekender your point of view is actually pretty worthless isn't it as you have nothing to compare it against.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    ... It's a vague claim. Bless Rocky for getting annoyed with it.
    I'm hardly annoyed... EN brought it up, DS said he had agenda for doing so and based on the statement on the website I pointed out that he had every right to pull them up on it. That's all

    Besides that it's an incredibly stupid thing to put on your website because they will always have dancers that will disagree with it, Skegmess being a prime example..

    So, far from being annoyed, I'm actually very happy that they've set themselves up to p1ss some people off!

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