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Thread: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

  1. #21
    Registered User Nessiemonster's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    I've found floorcraft to be an issue at times at most venues I've danced in. The worst I've found has been the Southport blues room (in 2007/8, which are the only times I've been).

    I kinda don't understand why it should be such a problem - I don't lead that often, but when I do I can still show awareness of what goes on around me, and take care to keep my partner as safe as possible (there will always be occasions when you and another lead both try to lead your partners into the same space. Oops.)

    There have been plenty of times as a follower when I've had to abort moves when a lead has been about to lead me into someone, and those I've not been able to abort because I've been put into an assisted spin. Cue much embarrasment on my part. When that happens it spoils the rest of the dance for both of us because I realise I have to be acutely aware of everything going on around me, which means I don't follow as well.

    But the times I Really Don't Understand are when I get bumped into when I'm bluesing. I mean, just swaying, bluesing. Not travelling, just shifting weight on the spot. Why can people not manage to avoid that?? And it's not just been MJers either, it's happened from wcs dancers too! And they shouldn't be coming anywhere near me as they should be on their slot!!!

    So yes, I think a greater awareness of floorcraft should be encouraged, though whether it can really be taught, and how, I'm not sure. But it seems obvious to me from my experience that the awareness of the need for good floorcraft needs to be raised...

    But on the plus side, when I dance with the many lovely leads who do have good floorcraft, boy do I enjoy the dances - I can be free to follow freely, fluidly and playfully, without worrying about where I'm being placed and who I'll bump into.

    Sorry. Rant over.
    Last edited by Nessiemonster; 19th-January-2010 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Felt a need to add a haddock :-)

  2. #22
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    No mention of floorcraft at Newbury (at least in the second class :-).
    Plenty of drops as per usual -- and at least two couples doing lifts (although the ladies in question kept their stilletos below waist-level).

    SpinDr

  3. #23
    Registered User Trousers's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessiemonster View Post
    [RantMode On]. . . . . [rantmodeoff]
    But on the plus side, when I dance with the many lovely leads who do have good floorcraft, boy do I enjoy the dances - I can be free to follow freely, fluidly and playfully, without worrying about where I'm being placed and who I'll bump into.

    Sorry. Rant over.

    You are, I hope, aware it is a two way street here. You don't say but I assume you are.
    However for those women that dance with me. . . . if any will after this. . .

    Please Please Please if I'm going to step back into someone that I haven't seen - because they are wandering about the floor or I just missed them because I was busy giving the old "come on girly I yours for the taking eyes routine".
    It is your chance, NO! your responsibility to indicate the impending collision.
    Its so easy even a squeezed hand indicate be careful to me and I know it works on the ladies.

    As a lead I can safely say there is no bigger thrill than dancing with a woman who is good enough to watch your back for you!

  4. #24
    Registered User daveb9000's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    I agree. The look over your shoulder while pulling back with the hand is enough to avoid a collision.

  5. #25
    Registered User Nessiemonster's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Trousers View Post
    You are, I hope, aware it is a two way street here. You don't say but I assume you are.
    Please Please Please if I'm going to step back into someone that I haven't seen ...
    It is your chance, NO! your responsibility to indicate the impending collision.
    Its so easy even a squeezed hand indicate be careful to me and I know it works on the ladies.

    As a lead I can safely say there is no bigger thrill than dancing with a woman who is good enough to watch your back for you!
    Thanks Trousers

    Yes, you're absolutely right it is a two-way street, and I do indeed watch out for all guys that I dance with. One cannot possibly see everywhere at once, and as follows we would be failing in our share of the partnership if we didn't do our bit to prevent collisions too.

    The lovely leads that I mentioned are responsive and appreciative.

    However, there are those that simply fail to read/respond to the squeezed hand, the pressure on the shoulder/back which is physically indicating a move away from an impending collision, or even sometimes the audible noise that escapes my lips as I see something is about to happen and realise I am powerless to prevent it...

    ...Which will never stop me always trying...

  6. #26
    Registered User gamebird's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    While I do my bit to make sure that neither my leader or I end up having a collision with other couples on the dancefloor, the other important part of floorcraft is that if there is a collision - a little bit of politeness, a quick apology, at least some eye-contact to make sure the other party is ok will generally wipe the slate clean with me.
    The people who really bother me are those who bash into you then don't even make any attempt to apologise - and, yes, as collisions have to involve at least 2 people both of you generally should take some blame for it and should therefore generally be willing to apologise - or as least make sure everyone's ok.

  7. #27
    Registered User Lost Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    I think if we are being honest all leads will admit that they have, on occasions, failed to get the floor craft right - for example leading our partner into a non existent space or into the path of another couple. However careful you try to be mistakes like this will happen, especially on a crowded floor.

    Personally I really appreciate it if my partner is also on the look out for potential collisions and helps to avoid these as suggested in earlier posts. I am not expecting the follower to take the main responsibility - after all it is the man that is doing the leading most of the time, but the fact is that the follower is sometimes better placed to see a particular danger (a lot of the time leader and follower are facing in different directions) and four eyes are better than two. Yes, it is true that keeping an eye out for other dancers can to some extent detract from ones enjoyment of the dance, but crashing into another couple isn't exactly going to enhance that feel good factor either is it.

    What I do find annoying are couples who insist on dancing in a very expansive style (walks, extreme drops, lifts, no defined slot etc.) when the dance floor is very crowded. I think everyone should be taught how to dance in a slotted style as this really helps in crowded situations, but I appreciate that many MJ'rs have never been taught how to do this so the best you can hope for is that they will at least try to adapt their dancing to the situation, though some folk seem to be incapable of doing this and you just have to try to keep out of their way. I suspect that in some cases it is down to ignorance and a lack of technical ability, but in others it is just thoughtlessness and a lack of consideration for other dancers.

  8. #28
    Registered User Trousers's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Quote Originally Posted by gamebird View Post
    While I do my bit to make sure that neither my leader or I end up having a collision with other couples on the dancefloor, the other important part of floorcraft is that if there is a collision - a little bit of politeness, a quick apology, at least some eye-contact to make sure the other party is ok will generally wipe the slate clean with me.
    The people who really bother me are those who bash into you then don't even make any attempt to apologise - and, yes, as collisions have to involve at least 2 people both of you generally should take some blame for it and should therefore generally be willing to apologise - or as least make sure everyone's ok.
    What?
    You have to be a woman!
    Ap . . . Ap . . . Apoloblodybolox

    I go straight to the Death Glare bar when its boloxed it self Like Here

  9. #29
    Registered User Lost Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessiemonster View Post
    I've found floorcraft to be an issue at times at most venues I've danced in. The worst I've found has been the Southport blues room (in 2007/8, which are the only times I've been).

    I kinda don't understand why it should be such a problem.....
    The main reason why it is a problem is that the floor is simply too crowded. This is particularly so in the case of the Southport blues room at peak times. There are other factors such as;

    - some dancers may never have had experience of trying to dance in such a crowded space
    - people trying to dance WCS, tango etc. when there isn't really the space to do so
    - lack of consideration for other dancers or lack of knowledge / skills needed to dance in a confined space

    If you are going to try dancing in the SP blues room at the very busiest times you pretty much have to accept that there will be at least minor collisions from time to time. Alternatively you can always go to one other other rooms or temporarily retreat to your chalet and then come back later when it's less busy. I don't think the floorcraft in the SP blues room is generally bad, it's more a case of the blues room being incredibly popular at peak times thus making it very crowded.

  10. #30
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    when i hear about floorcraft two places always come to mind one is st neots ceroc i came home battered and bruised having been told it was very busy but that was nonsense as it was about half as busy as some of the "busy" but good venues i attend
    the other one which is more of a suprise is the back half of hammersmith where again i always promise my self i wont dance whats odd about it is the front half normally has great floorcraft

  11. #31
    Registered User gamebird's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Trousers View Post
    What?
    You have to be a woman!
    Ap . . . Ap . . . Apoloblodybolox

    I go straight to the Death Glare bar when its boloxed it self Like Here
    I think I have a fairly good 'look' that I inherited from my mother (not my mum, not when she was giving me that look anyway) ...but you have to see them coming to be able to use that to stop a collision, the apology (go on, try it.....slowly now, a-pol-o-gy) only comes when contact has been made. As I say it gets almost everyone off the hook with me

    I actually had to use the 'look' on my partner the other night when he made some flippant comment about it not mattering that someone else was in our way and they'd just have to move!!!!!

  12. #32
    Registered User Trousers's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Here's an observation . . .

    When I am dancing my personal preference is to hear the start of the track, work out the speed and style of it, and quickly hunt around for a woman that is going to be able to keep up with the music and do it with style. If I have not 'scored' within 30 seconds of the start of the track I jut give up. I class that as a missed dance and look around for possibilities for the next track and take up a position where I may be able to find a woman and get started within my 30 seconds.

    I do this for two reasons; firstly I want to be able to consider the dance a 'complete' dance in case its really rubbish and I want to move on quickly. If it was only half a track one feels obliged to take the next track too and that might be the best track all night and I wouldn't be able to choose a suitable partner for it - Thus I'd mentally loose out.
    Secondly I know that after 30 seconds the floor space has been pretty much been allotted to the dancers that have managed to partner up and start dancing. Find a space after that can be tedious if not impossible so I choose not to squeeze in thus I don't start a dance after my 30 second intro time.

    Unfortunately my rules only apply to me which means throughout the length of a track more couples try and get on the floor sometimes for the last bar of the track - we've all seen that. It means that the floor, which was initially divided fairly well at the start, is now overcrowded. The first up couples feel crowded out, the late comers don't care and are in that oblivious state where you are concentrating on the partner to get a feel of their style.

    If everyone used my method I think the floor would stay a little more comfortable for those that get going quickly. Those that miss out get a head start on being ready for the next track.
    But I know there is no way to sell that strategy to anyone else.
    I know the arguments would be along the line of 'but I miss out on a dance' the reply 'yeah but it was a crap dance mate and you spoiled three other couples enjoyment as well you git' doesn't go down too well even being the truth.

    Personally I can't see the point in taking someone on the floor for half a track. Any less than half a track is rank stupidity in my book - If its a track you know your style will all be out because you wont have time to fnd your groove for that track before it finishes. If you don't know the track you wont have time to listen and get the feel of the track either. Both ways your dance and style will not be up to par.
    If I get a lady ask me for a dance over the back end of a track I weigh up my options very quickly. Do I want half a dance? Is there any space on the floor. Is the lady going to be able to keep up with this track (some people yo do know cant dance fast but continue to ask you to dance to quick tracks).
    Then I say yes or no. If it was yes there will be space regardless of other conciderations.
    If I said no I will offer to take the next track with them because. . . the floor is too busy, it's a bit quick this one or it's nearly finished this one lets wait for the next one.

    I'm not a ballroom dancer so I don't know the etiquette at their dances - but I can see little point in starting a waltz or quickstep half way through a track! Do they do that?


    But like I said no one else will follow my strategy. Unfortunately because I follow my own advice I do admit to feeling extremely peeved when I have my space stolen by some nutter who comes on the floor for the end of a track.

  13. #33
    Registered User Trousers's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Quote Originally Posted by gamebird View Post
    . . . . try it.....slowly now, a-pol-o-gy. . . .
    Nope it just comes out as "****!"
    and its always directed at the guy.

    GRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

  14. #34
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    (lots of bumpf by trousers deleted)

    I just dance. If a lady asks me I just say yes with a smile. If she can't dance fast then take another beat from the song stay in time and it will be fun. Tale plantlife luv me till it hurts, great track for ladies to express themselves, I danced it with a beginner who had the best dance ever with me because I controlled the dance speed quicker slower and guided her withbody leads. Can't beat that flushed buzzy happy face on someone. Sometimes you will see me sprinting to grab someone as i recognise the opening bars but if you have good djs like rocky and annette then you know the next track is going to be good so no problem. Result is I only leave the dance floor to hydrate or pop to the loo.

  15. #35
    Registered User Von's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Trousers View Post
    I have a slot I call Ted!

    oh i've had a bad week and this just made me laugh out loud in the office - thank you - i needed a good chuckle - off to name my slot now!

  16. #36
    Registered User fandangle's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc Floorcraft policy

    Interesting discussion.

    For those interested, there's a good rant about floorcraft (or the lack of) at

    http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636

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