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Thread: Stop & search

  1. #21
    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    BTW I missed half the night at Luton as a result of this.
    There's always a silver lining somewhere.

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    There's always a silver lining somewhere.
    The thanks were on behalf of my partners ...

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    They do apply at airports. Airport security are well trained civilians. You have to consent to being searched by airport security. You can withold your consent and they can not search you by force. If you do not consent you are not allowed on the flight.
    Which makes life tricky for those of us who actually work on aeroplanes and have to go through security every single day. Most security people at airports are fine but you do get the occasional one with an unshakeable belief in their own importance who will shout loudly at you in front of a whole queue of passengers, when you are in uniform, if they feel you have transgressed their own personal set of conditions in some way. Following the very good advice given on dealing with such a situation would entail missing my report time and having to explain to the company why the flight didn't leave on time because I wasn't there on time, which is never fun especially when a lot of people in my line of work are losing their jobs.

  4. #24
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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    The way I would handle this:
    1. Keep calm
    2. Ask lots of questions, they won't like this because your ignorance is their power
    3. Note down their ID card details, this will unnerve them as you are clearly gathering evidence for a complaint
    4. They don't have any more rights than you or I so the only thing they can do is make a citizens arrest, if you don't move they won't have any legitimate reason to touch you
    5. Insist that they call the police, when it is found that you're innocent they'll soon be cut down to size, keep an eye on your bags though in case they try and plant something
    6. Don't attempt to leave the shop, they may feel this is sufficient grounds to restrain you
    7. Don't let them touch you or search you or your bags, only the police can do that. The police might take ages to turn up. Having their suspect close to the door could be a significant inconvenience to them, don't let them drag you off to some office at the back of the shop, they don't have the right to do that.
    8. If they attempt to search you or your bags, repeatedly inform them that you do not consent and that they are acting unlawfully.
    9. If they don't seem to know what you've stolen, protest that this demonstrates they have absolutely no evidence of any wrong doing. As people exit the store tell them that the idiot security guards haven't a clue and are acting without any evidence and are unlawfully trying to search you. They'll soon start to feel the burn of self consciousness.
    10. Look around for security cameras, stand in front of one and tell the security guards that you are doing this so that everything they do is recorded
    11. Watch them squirm when the police turn up for nothing
    12. Find a no win no fee lawyer and sue them
    what a list of utter nonsense well done - but not all security personnel are idiots you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Losing ones temper seldom helps. However I knew I was being falsly publicly accused (the long checkout queue were all gazing in my direction) without a valid reason, and my first perception was there may have been malice involved from another staff member. I was also in a hurry to prepare for dancing. I do not suffer incompetence gladly. Its a weakness.
    Fair enough - you were the one that was there, but not knowing you, your words describing the event did come across as slightly arrogant - ill assume that is not the case here

    Personally I would have not co-operated at all and left or waited for the police - even if i was late for something

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    ... Personally I would have not co-operated at all and left or waited for the police - even if i was late for something
    So would I ... and loudly ... but "couda, wouda, shouda" you react in the time allotted. So many right answers the day after the exam ...

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    There's always a silver lining somewhere.
    FWIW my trip to Luton got me seven dances. The venue closed early after heavy snow.

    For my trip I got seven dances from good to great to tracks from Marc that I loved with dancers from 1st timers to Rachel.

    overall day was
    Lidl - -
    Luton + + +

    (The 1st timers were Salsa dancers)

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    overall day was
    Lidl - -
    Luton + + +
    Good balance in the end then

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    Re: Stop & search

    I know that the Security over-stepped the mark and it's easy to lose your head in a pressure situation, but sheesh! They're just trying to do a difficult job and if they do it well, then Lidl don't have to raise their prices to compensate for the goods they lose through theft.

    Same as a few years back when the Police stopped me because I went around a roundabout twice late at night (I was lost!) and asked me to do a breath test. I hadn't had a drop to drink for days and as far as I'm concerned, a short delay on my part is worth it if it gets more drunk drivers off the road.

  9. #29
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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    the Police stopped me because I went around a roundabout twice late at night (I was lost!) and asked me to do a breath test...a short delay on my part is worth it if it gets more drunk drivers off the road.
    Whilst that is completely the right attitude to have, it's still not comparable to Lidl-gate.

    By going round the roundabout twice, you were doing something that warranted you being pulled over because of your erratic driving.

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Whilst that is completely the right attitude to have, it's still not comparable to Lidl-gate.

    By going round the roundabout twice, you were doing something that warranted you being pulled over because of your erratic driving.
    I agree it's not the same because bigdjiver hadn't (as far as we know) done anything to warrant being stopped, but I still think I'd rather see a few innocent people being checked rather than more guilty people getting away with it.

  11. #31
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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I agree it's not the same because bigdjiver hadn't (as far as we know) done anything to warrant being stopped, but I still think I'd rather see a few innocent people being checked rather than more guilty people getting away with it.
    but not at random, not without due cause (having shopping in a shopping bag is not due cause), and not without redress or compensation if thay are wrong. If the guy had said "we are sorry" loud enough for everybody in the checkout queues to hear to hear I would have accepted that.

    I think it would have been good customer relations to have compensation for a false accusation policy in place.

  12. #32
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    Re: Stop & search

    out of interest, have you complained to Lidl head office

    At the end of the day, they are responsible for training and the conduct of their staff

    if no one tells the their system is broke, the same thing is likely to happen again

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    but not at random, not without due cause (having shopping in a shopping bag is not due cause)
    but if you suspect that someone made a false accusation to them, then they did have due cause and it wasn't random.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    and not without redress or compensation if thay are wrong. If the guy had said "we are sorry" loud enough for everybody in the checkout queues to hear to hear I would have accepted that.
    Now that's a different issue altogether and one that I would agree with.

  14. #34
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    Re: Stop & search

    Interestingly, a little snippet in the papers today says that the European Court of Human Rights has ruled that the Police using random stop and search is Illegal.
    Needless to say appeals are underway...

  15. #35
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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I know that the Security over-stepped the mark and it's easy to lose your head in a pressure situation, but sheesh! They're just trying to do a difficult job and if they do it well, then Lidl don't have to raise their prices to compensate for the goods they lose through theft.

    Same as a few years back when the Police stopped me because I went around a roundabout twice late at night (I was lost!) and asked me to do a breath test. I hadn't had a drop to drink for days and as far as I'm concerned, a short delay on my part is worth it if it gets more drunk drivers off the road.
    There is a big difference between the two events.

    Firstly, there is a simlarity which I believe has confused Gav. The similarity is that in both cases there was a reason to act. In the case of Gav it was his roundabout antics. In the case of bigdj it was another customer reporting her suspicions to the company.

    However, it was the actions which made the difference. The police acted within the law based on their suspicions when they stopped Gav. This is all right and good and will reduce the number of offences if these actions are repeated in the long term. At Lidl the security officers stepped outside the law in their actions. This has not reduced the number off offences it has increased them. The security themselves committed at least 3 offences. Illegal search, assault and detaining a member of the public. If Lidl security were to repeat their actions every day they would soon find themselves in court.

    Having given this some thought, it seems to me that Gav is completely wrong and the actions of Lidl did nothing for the "greater good".
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 13th-January-2010 at 12:13 PM.

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    There is a big difference between the two events.

    Firstly, there is a simlarity which I believe has confused Gav.
    No confusion here
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    However, it was the actions which made the difference. The police acted within the law based on their suspicions when they stopped Gav. This is all right and good and will reduce the number of offences if these actions are repeated in the long term. At Lidl the security officers stepped outside the law in their actions. This has not reduced the number off offences it has increased them. The security themselves committed at least 3 offences. Illegal search, assault and detaining a member of the public. If Lidl security were to repeat their actions every day they would soon find themselves in court.

    Having given this some thought, it seems to me that Gav is completely wrong and the actions of Lidl did nothing for the "greater good".
    Which was why I started with
    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I know that the Security over-stepped the mark and it's easy to lose your head in a pressure situation, but...

  17. #37
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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Which was why I started with
    It's the "but". Lidl weren't reducing theft. They were increasing crime levels.

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    Re: Stop & search

    An interesting thread. I had a similar experience several years ago in an Aldi store, carrying a bag with some biscuits in it and then adding some purchases from Aldi to this bag. In this case I was intercepted on the way out of the door and asked politely if I minded explaining why I had the biscuits (luckily Waitrose-branded so the whole thing was easy to defuse). I was co-operative, and keen to help clear it up and I'm sure I'd have been the same even if I'd been approached in more obnoxious manner since I've always found that being excessively polite in these situations normally disarms even the most stroppy security person.

  19. #39
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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Secreto View Post
    I had a similar experience several years ago in an Aldi store, carrying a bag with some biscuits in it and then adding some purchases from Aldi to this bag.
    A few years ago Sue, my wife, had a similar experience at Tesco. She set off the alarms when leaving the store and the security guys asked her if she'd recently bought anything from Boots. She said she had a new lipstick. It seems that Boots security tags were setting off Tesco alarms! They didn't even bother to search her and must have been really busy with so many false alarms!

    Thank goodness I hadn't got my new No7 lipstick, eye liner and blusher in my pocket

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    Re: Stop & search

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    It's the "but". Lidl weren't reducing theft. They were increasing crime levels.
    and that's exactly my point that I'd be prepared to accept some inconvenience to innocent parties if it meant that guilty people were more likely to be caught; whilst accepting that in this situation, the security guards were in the wrong and should not have acted the way that they did.

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