Totally agree with you!
Totally agree with you!
If they don't contravene any laws then I can't think of a good reason why they shouldn't hold a march. Same comment applies to the BNP, and any other organisations that hold 'distasteful' views.
These people want to come out in public and voice their opinions. If they do that then they have to be prepared to be judged on what they chant and the placards they hold. My guess is that most people in the UK won't agree with them.
Here's an interesting confrontation from a few weeks back that I felt didn't receive as much media coverage as it deserved:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/8387110.stm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6938471.ece
http://muslimahmediawatch.org/2009/1...aroness-warsi/
Society takes note of events such as this (provided the media is not biased or censored). In my opinion, if they continue in this way they do themselves no favours, and reveal their true nature.
In recent years there has been a disturbing increase in laws that seek to diminish freedom of speech. Fortunately, Rowan Atkinson, and others have campaigned against such restrictions. The right to observe and criticise is an important part of democracy. Some people want to undermine, reduce, and remove that right.
"I may not agree with what you say, but to the death I will defend your right to say it."
Thier website is not working at the mo but was working this morn (might be my PC as it's playing up) http://www.islam4uk.com
Makes an interesting read in to these people objectives.
It wasn't working earlier, but it is now.
I had a look. For non-muslims like myself they offer a helpful insight into how Britain might look under shariah law.
http://www.islam4uk.com/non-muslims
I note that islam4uk appears to be the same group that protested over the visit of Geert Wilders and his anti-islamic film, Fitna.
Check out images 2 and 3 in this article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6877865.ece
I wonder if they'll have similar messages when they march in Wooton Bassett?
You may wish to die defending the rights of Islamic Extremism but I'd kill defending my right not to live in a UK Caliphate.
If you remember your history, appeasement to extremism in the mid 30's led to the 2nd world war, which resulted in the deaths of millions defending their right not to live under Nazi rule.
Btw, facebook has a group against the march HERE it has close to a quarter million members after just 2 days, looks like you're outnumbered Bubble.
Last edited by Brian Doolan; 4th-January-2010 at 04:53 PM.
"the lives of millions of women will have been truly liberated. Furthermore, each woman Muslim and non-Muslim would thereafter be obliged to cover with a Khimaar and Jilbaab (more commonly known as the hijaab), so that only their faces and hands are visible in the public arena. All men and women will also be obliged to lower their gaze and avoid free-mixing as much as possible."
The whole thing has to be a wind up.
I agree with Bubble up to a point regarding freedom of speech as this is one of the foundations of democracy. There is also a danger when extremist groups are pushed underground and I think it naive to think that there is not a strong following for the Islamic marchers within the UK. I do not believe that by letting them march that this is appeasement but I do think that if the placards are inflammatory as have been in past then the people displaying these placards should be arrested and prosecuted. If people strongly disagree with this march then a counter demonstration could also be held
I would expect a large number of people to be perturbed by this march and to sign up against it but wonder if that number of people would be willing to protest other than a petition on facebook if the march was to go ahead.
The UK has become a very apathetic nation when it comes to protesting
"One very real possibility that we envisage could occur in Britain when it succumbs to Islamic rule is for Buckingham Palace to be converted into a beautiful mosque"
http://www.islam4uk.com/non-muslims/...er-the-shariah
http://www.islam4uk.com/non-muslims/...er-the-shariah
"Furthermore, each woman Muslim and non-Muslim would thereafter be obliged to cover with a Khimaar and Jilbaab (more commonly known as the hijaab), so that only their faces and hands are visible in the public arena. All men and women will also be obliged to lower their gaze and avoid free-mixing as much as possible."
Unfortunately Lee, it most emphatically is not!
It is the extreme fundamental interpretation of the likes of Islam4UK.
I've many Muslim pals who are moderate, a few of whose wives wouldn't be seen dead in a hijaab, they're as western thinking as I am but still proud Muslims and as fearful of Sharia and a Caliphate as I am.
Roll on Sharia in the UK? Sharia
Just to clarify, I don't have any issues with people saying whatever they want. I would, however, object to most of the changes that shariah law would bring to the UK. As I said, it's an important part of democracy to be able to say, more or less, whatever you want. It's also an important part of democracy to be able to reject the views of others at the ballot box, which is where it actually matters.
In case anyone thinks this means we're living the democratic dream. WAKE UP! We're not! The last few years has seen huge assaults on democracy in the UK. Parliament Square should be the seat of democracy, but we now have laws that prohibit protests and demonstrations from this area without prior permission from the authorities. Why did our government see fit to enact that kind of law in a supposedly 'free state'?
You might well hope so. Certainly MJ as we know it would be finished under shariah law.
Perhaps a march like the one proposed by islam4uk will be the catalyst that actually wakes people up to the fact that their liberty could be at stake. However, given the way that we've sleep walked into everything else over the last few years I do wonder if anything can rouse UK public. These days it seems nobody cares much provided they've got a flash car and nice clothes.
Last edited by Bubble; 4th-January-2010 at 08:02 PM. Reason: fix quote
It's not "people" that need to wake up, it's the government, or any party hoping to be elected. I'm completely dissatisfied with Labour and Conservatives proposed policies on all Islamic issues, but you can't vote for that crook Nick Griffin from the BNP because he's as bad as any Islamic extremist. Nick must be rubbing his hands with glee at the prospect of this up-coming protest...that's another few thousand votes for him.
And if you decline their invitations to convert to islam, this is what happens:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...rt-to-islam.do
They'll get you either way
Too right, you can't just silence people because you don't like what they're saying. That's what happened to dissidents in the USSR when it was a communist state. Judging by what happened to Alexander Litvinenko they still haven't quite managed to kick the habit of bumping off anyone that doesn't agree with them.
Last edited by Bubble; 9th-January-2010 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Added Maxine quote and comment
Indeed. I have to agree with this sentiment - not allowing them to march, however distasteful we might find their views, would be yet another assault on free speech. Their views should not go unchallenged though.
They should be allowed to march, but there should also be very strict policing with anyone displaying racist or inflammatory placards etc. being arrested for hate crime or breach of the peace. Turning a blind eye in the name of "tolerance" would send out entirely the wrong message. If that means there needs to be a huge police presence, so much the better.
There should also be counter-demonstrations in and around Wootton Bassett at the same time, with people opposed to Islam4UK's extremist views exercising their own freedom to express their views. I think I know which demonstration would be bigger and have more impact. The key thing, though, would be to keep the demonstrations peaceful and not allow racist idiots (on either side) to incite violence, which would seriously dilute the anti-extremist message.
There's a very interesting article regarding this on the BBC website dealing with the morality of this argument. The final line says:
"...the manifest defects of the messenger, shouldn't blind us to the possibility of a kernel of truth in the message." David Rodin, a senior research fellow at the Oxford Institute for Ethics, Law and Armed Conflict
In the past we've let the IRA and ALF demonstrate whilst they were still murdering people and showing no interest in democracy.
Allow the march to go ahead but insist no-one wears any head coverings. Film them, trace them and add them to MI5's watch list .
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