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Thread: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

  1. #1
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    How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    Ok so I'm doing beginers tango and where doing Ocho's.

    The lady teacher say they ladies can cross in front as a decoration if the guys give them time.

    And I say how can I give them time without actually changing the move from say a four beat move to a five or six beat move.

    And she dosn't really know or fails to tell me.

    So the question remains how do you give space inside a move or movement without actually changing the timing?

    Your thoughts please.

    Remeber I'm just asking about space inside of a movement not outside.

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    Registered User ant's Avatar
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    Re: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    Jim below is the best explanation of decorations I have come across.

    Lead Decoration:
    Decorations I lead, either directly like a saludo or indirectly by giving time and space like some movements connected to the parada, stepping over the men's food, etc. I’ll take the responsibility not to hinder, hurt anybody, and she can execute her action any style she likes. If the need arises I’ll shorten the action, for example when we stop the dance flow.

    Woman's Decoration.
    Embellishments that happens, within the pattern of dance, I’m not hindered by them and sometimes I don’t feel them at all. I don’t slow or give space, the women makes them between our regular steps. They are usually small. Taps or crossing forward during ochos would be such examples. They are more or less just for her own musical interpretation. It’s a little hard to achieve as speed and balance are required. However, for the experienced follower they can turn a dance with a novice leader into an exciting challenge, even when he is doing the Basic for full three minutes.

    As you can see it is not your responsability to give the space in this situation. It is a judgement call of the follower. She must decide for herself whether there is sufficient time to to do the decoration without affecting your lead.

    On a more general note, IME If this is a beginners class I am surprised that decorations are being taught.
    Last edited by ant; 27th-November-2009 at 12:41 AM.

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    Woman's Decoration.
    Embellishments that happens, within the pattern of dance, I’m not hindered by them and sometimes I don’t feel them at all. I don’t slow or give space, the women makes them between our regular steps. They are usually small. Taps or crossing forward during ochos would be such examples. They are more or less just for her own musical interpretation.
    I'd agree - though I wouldn't think of it as a 'cross' as such in front during the ocho as I don't place my weight, I just cross over my ankles before stepping forward/back. Sorry, not explaining very well - the point is, as Ant said, its within the space already there - I don't need/take any extra time to do it.

    Maybe the teacher wasn't talking about the followers taking extra time in the move, but just to make leads aware not to rush ochos?

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    Re: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    As the old saying goes, it takes two to Tango
    IMHO
    Tango is not about “moves” but individual steps, which can form a pattern
    Tango is like a conversation the leader needs to “pause” to give the follower time to have their say
    With time , you will detect the follower wanting to “say something”
    But it is very complicated, which is why it probably takes about 5 – 10 years learn to tango

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    Re: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post

    On a more general note, IME If this is a beginners class I am surprised that decorations are being taught.
    More like a beginners plus class.

    Plus it's a really small class which is nice and allows it to be quite focused.

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    Re: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    I'm not just talking about tango here by the way. That's just an illustration.

    I think advice for this can come from anywhere. I think most dances are govement by the same rules and ideas. They just tend to have different focus.

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    Re: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    Good topic

    at this point I probably spend most time working on getting the balance right in the amount of "space" i have in my lead which:-
    1. clearly indicates my lead intentions while
    2. allows for the follow to add her musicality inspired variations
    it is quite dynamic - different for each follow, song and mood.

    I am interested to hear how others approach this - frankly I am not sure how to communicate how this happens for me with words

    NB. As opposed to the thread title, it would not concern me if I did change the timing as long I communicated that to the follow.

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    Re: How do you give space in a move without actually changing the timing

    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    Ok so I'm doing beginers tango and where doing Ocho's.

    The lady teacher say they ladies can cross in front as a decoration if the guys give them time.

    And I say how can I give them time without actually changing the move from say a four beat move to a five or six beat move.
    An Ocho has two parts, which would both start on a beat (pivot, step). Each part can take as long as you want. So simplistically, you might take a minimum of 4 beats for an ocho to get back to the same place.

    To allow the lady to decorate, you need:
    • Her to know which beats you will be leading on
    • You to allow her to maintain her balance
    • You to wait for her to arrive at any position before you start to lead her to another
    • lots of other details


    If she wants to do {pivot},{cross,step} in two beats, you give her space to do this by allowing her to step from one stable position to another. The easiest way to do this is to be almost completely still, since it's less likely that you will push her off balance.

    Of course, she needs to be able to fit the decoration into the time that the music gives her, but if there is any point doing the decoration, it might be possible to borrow some time from the next step.

    Start with an 8 beat ocho, and try and find the details there, then take out the spaces if you have to rush through your track.

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