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Thread: Why are some venues/operators more successful than others?

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    Why are some venues/operators more successful than others?

    I know this has been discussed in amongst other threads before, but last night I had a bit of a "Eureka" moment on the way back from Boogie Shack (the Thursday night Lindy Hop class by JiveSwing.com in Welwyn).
    Apart from the fact that you need to be good at dancing, teaching, organising and have a personality, I was trying to work out what makes Joseph's classes so different.

    Then I got it, he doesn't pander to the punters.
    Don't get me wrong, he seems to care about the development and enjoyment of the dancers as his number 1 priority, but it's his way or the highway.


    • Fixed partners are not allowed (that doesn't even get a mention normally, but I have seen him stop someone from doing it) - You join in the class like everyone else or go somewhere else and stop getting in the way.


    • He teaches "other" things as warm-ups (such as jazz steps, or something else that your average Joe would choose to sit out), BUT, no-one is allowed to sit out, everyone has to join in.


    • Staying after the class to social dance is as close to being mandatory as possible and he's always stressing how much of a difference social dancing and intensive workshops makes to your dance development.


    • It's a standing rule that experienced dancers must dance the first 3 songs of freestyle with a beginner.
    • Teachers and other staff are always seen dancing during social times (not to mention grabbing people that aren't dancing and taking them to someone else for a dance!).


    • Lessons always start on time (or as soon as Joseph is ready after that time). Even if there were only a few people, he'd start anyway.


    Overall, the impression I get is that he's not doing it for the money, so he doesn't have to bend over backwards to accommodate everyone for fear of losing customers; and you know what, a lot of people love it and keep coming back.

    I understand that for some people, teaching dance is their livelihood and they want to keep everyone happy, thereby increasing their revenue, but I can't help thinking that this dilutes the message.
    Clearly it would be a big risk for a commercial operator to start working that way, but J&T have stuck to their principles and their club is expanding with new nights, new venues and new teachers.
    Pure speculation now, but I'm thinking that that's why there's such a high turnover of dancers in such clubs? and why clubs like Joseph and Trisha's have a much lower turnover?

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    Re: Why are some venues/operators more successful than others?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    So he doesn't have to bend over backwards to accommodate everyone for fear of losing customers;
    Yes but he clearly cares about his customers and has their respect, as the saying goes sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Fixed partners are not allowed……Lessons always start on time

    Well done that man

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    Re: Why are some venues/operators more successful than others?

    Joseph is clearly very confident! It takes balls to put your foot down like that. Good for him, I wish all classes were run like that.

    I'm probably one of the worst offenders for wanting to go fixed partners with Gav whenever we're learning something new, but I know it's better for me to practice with other people. I might have a little internal sulk if I was forced to dance with others, but I wouldn't resist as I know it's the right way to go.

    Well done Joseph! Where do I sign up?

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    Re: Why are some venues/operators more successful than others?

    This list could describe our classes, except for the warm-ups - perhaps we should introduce them.

    I'm particularly assertive about the no fixed couple rule. We teach a social dance and I want people do dance socially. Besides, I've learnt from experience that beginners who pair up at the back are very unlikely to return!

    The people who come to our classes like what we do and there's enough of them to make our nights viable. However, there are people who do not like what we do. In the main those people are the ones who don't do lessons and don't think they need them. These are the people who are always telling you how to run your nights - they want your nights to be run for the pleasure of people who don't do lessons and just want freestyle. I think my constant pressure to join in with the lesson has caused these fabulous dancers to go elsewhere.

    I think that the answer is that you have to be consistent and that you can't please all of the people. If you keep delivering a consistent product you will retain people who like your product and you will lose people who do not like it. Eventually you will have a hall full of people who like what you do. There might be a hall full of people who do not like what you do - but you will not be in that hall, that is where the competition offer what you do not.

    That doesn't mean you are right and it doesn't mean that your competition is wrong. It means that different people want different things.

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    Re: Why are some venues/operators more successful than others?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I know this has been discussed in amongst other threads before, but last night I had a bit of a "Eureka" moment on the way back from Boogie Shack (the Thursday night Lindy Hop class by JiveSwing.com in Welwyn).
    Apart from the fact that you need to be good at dancing, teaching, organising and have a personality, I was trying to work out what makes Joseph's classes so different.

    Then I got it, he doesn't pander to the punters.
    Don't get me wrong, he seems to care about the development and enjoyment of the dancers as his number 1 priority, but it's his way or the highway.


    • Fixed partners are not allowed (that doesn't even get a mention normally, but I have seen him stop someone from doing it) - You join in the class like everyone else or go somewhere else and stop getting in the way.
    One of my pet hates
    I remember Joseph, he used to cover at Chigwell about 8-9 years ago he was such good fun the way he ran the class

    I used to taxi for Ceroc Nights (Karen & Glen). I think the reason they were so successful was that they always made an effort to learn the names of the people who came to their classes. After the class they would spend the evening dancing with everyone in the room getting around as many people as possible. The only reason that I stopped going was that I could not stand the music just too boing boing for me but they always pull in the numbers

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