View Poll Results: Marriage is...

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  • Delightfully Divine

    5 38.46%
  • Merely Mortal

    6 46.15%
  • Irrelevant

    2 15.38%
  • Irreverent

    0 0%
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Thread: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

  1. #21
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    I was going to write a long reply. If you believe this, fine. But I believe marriage is far more complex than this - as I highlighted in my analysis. Marriage is - and always has been embedded in the society in which we live. But reducing it to simply a public commitment means that there's no point in providing any detailed analysis or engaging in any argument.
    For the label "marriage", then yes it is "simply the joining of two people and a public label of commitment." Being in a marriage is far more complicated, but then so is every other relationship you may find yourself in with another person, and to a much lesser degree.

  2. #22
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    ... is there a difference, fundamentally, between a married couple and an unmarried couple other than the certificate nowadays?
    Men enter into marriage expecting things to remain the same and are disappointed when they don't.

    Women enter into marriage expecting things to change and are disappointed when they don't.


  3. #23
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    For the label "marriage", then yes it is "simply the joining of two people and a public label of commitment." Being in a marriage is far more complicated, but then so is every other relationship you may find yourself in with another person, and to a much lesser degree.
    One of your arguments is that there is no difference between marriage and any other long term, committed relationship. That, in itself, is a significant change in society. It wasn't very long ago that no other form of long term, committed relationship was really recognised.

    This sort of change might be well illustrated by the difference between courtship and modern dating. Courtship was intended specifically as a prelude to marriage. it was often very formalised and involved negotiations between the families - and, in many cases, not the intendeds. Dating, in the modern sense, is a social activity. It only emerged in the 1920s. Today, the lines between dating and a long term, committed relationship are blurred; and the line between a long term, committed relationship and marriage is almost non-existent. That's a substantial change - and something quite new.

    I don't know what the right forms for marriage and families are. There is a lot of noise about "the break down of families" and "a return to family values" in some circles. By right, I mean forms that should be encouraged or given a privileged legal status. Previously, marriage was the primary form; today, that's less true, but it's still an issue. I'm not even sure there should be a primary form. The only thing I am sure of is that attempting to return to the conceptions of "marriage" from the past won't do anyone any good: society has changed to the extent that these forms are no longer viable.

  4. #24
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Where's the poll?

    (haven't read it yet, but will)

  5. #25
    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Where's the poll?

    (haven't read it yet, but will)
    Ok ... Could some mod add an anonymous (single choice) poll please?

    Delightfully Divine?
    Merely Mortal?
    Irrelavent?
    Irreverant?


    I'm banking on a massive minority of Divine ... but .... surprise me!!!

    [Thinking about it ... some people (or at least one person, me!) may feel that: That which is mortal and/or mundane is not without it's own divinity.]

    ... Well, when I say 'Thinking about it' .... that was in response to a comment I got!!
    Last edited by Magic Hans; 11th-November-2009 at 09:01 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Hans View Post
    Irreverant?

    How can marriage itself be irreverent ? what do you mean ?

  7. #27
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    I've said marriage is merely mortal. While I got married in church and believe marriage is made more special if there are religious beliefs involved, the day to day running of a marriage is much like everything else in life. What you (both) put in, you get out.

    It always needs communication, and lots of compromise or agreement up front. Much like in business really (apart from lots more romance and sex).

    I think the way most people view marriage is down to their upbringing and experience that their parents had. Given I had no friends until 6th form whose parents were unhappily marrried/divorced I still largely have traditional views of marriage, and I guess people are waiting longer to get married to try and make sure they've found the right person.

  8. #28
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Slightly amused at the 'society is different now' responses, as if we are the only generation ever to think that!

    A key thing to making a marriage work is shared goals, aims and outlook. If one partner expects one thing of marriage and the other something different, there is more likely to be a breakdown of the relationship. Neither may have a 'wrong' view of marriage - just different. So a key thing is outlining and talking about what marriage means - before you go ahead. The problem is that people just assume everyone thinks of it in the same way.

    If neither person believes in God at all I don't see the role of the 'Divine' in marriage, though I know some people still want a religious ceremony. As a Christian, I want to marry someone who also is a Christian - because its important to have that shared view of what marriage is. It won't give any guarantees that my marriage will work though - that will be down to me and my husband!

  9. #29
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    People change too, sometimes drastically and you find you're married to someone you don't even like any more.

  10. #30
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    People change too, sometimes drastically and you find you're married to someone you don't even like any more.
    Dont like? Don't know sometimes!!

    The classic mid-life crisis is (as I see it) the time at which the stereotypical couple, married young and had kids, have spent most of their married life nurturing and bringing up their kids. When those kids then leave home, they are then necessarily faced with each other again, at a point when they've not given each other any significant attention since the kids were born (18-25+ years ago). Understandably they barely even recognise each other after all those years of growth and change, and they no longer have the distraction of family. [Ok, I'm sure this is a massive simplified generalisation ... but it makes sense!! ..... well to me anyhow!

    And I think that the point about society changing is a valid one. Family and society roles have become more and more varied and less and less well defined (or should that be conformed!)

    We now live longer, and can travel more and further, and are ever more sophicated (and less likely to conform) in our outlook, let alone influenced by the media. That together with a general erosion of communities must reflect on the 'institution' of marriage, which, has always been the foundation block of communities (maybe! lol)

  11. #31
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Men marry women hoping that they’ll never change, women marry men hoping they’ll change them , they’re normally both disappointed.

    Can’t remember the author but recognise the sentiments

  12. #32
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    Men marry women hoping that they’ll never change, women marry men hoping they’ll change them , they’re normally both disappointed.

    Can’t remember the author but recognise the sentiments
    Gadget wasn't it?

  13. #33
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    OK you've caught me out I have not read the whole thread just the last few bits

  14. #34
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Has anyone seen a post of mine? I'm sure I left it around here somewhere

    I guess someone's taking the maxim "It's better to give than to receive" a little too literally

  15. #35
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Men enter into marriage expecting things to remain the same and are disappointed when they don't.

    Women enter into marriage expecting things to change and are disappointed when they don't.

    Another quote

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates, alledgedly
    By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher

  16. #36
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Hans View Post
    The classic mid-life crisis is (as I see it) the time at which the stereotypical couple, married young and had kids, have spent most of their married life nurturing and bringing up their kids. When those kids then leave home, they are then necessarily faced with each other again, at a point when they've not given each other any significant attention since the kids were born (18-25+ years ago). Understandably they barely even recognise each other after all those years of growth and change, and they no longer have the distraction of family. [Ok, I'm sure this is a massive simplified generalisation ... but it makes sense!! ..... well to me anyhow!
    Funnily enough almost this exact situation is happening to a friend of mine at the moment. It's sad to watch although the kids are dealing with it well, but said friend doesn't seem overly concerned about it and is rebounding with another woman at the moment even though the divorce isn't finalised. His opinion seems to be "well we've been together a while, kids are away now, what's the point of being tied down?", which to me misses the whole point of being married in the first place.

  17. #37
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I thought the title of this thread said Mortal Combat when I first saw it in the listing. I know divorce can be messy but it's not quite the same as a fatality
    The words marital and martial are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    For the label "marriage", then yes it is "simply the joining of two people and a public label of commitment." Being in a marriage is far more complicated, but then so is every other relationship you may find yourself in with another person, and to a much lesser degree.
    Used to be called yoked together - like the 2 oxen working under the yoke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    OK you've caught me out I have not read the whole thread just the last few bits
    I've heard it too.

    The next bit of the saying is that women always change (especially if they become mothers) and the men never do.

    Men have the right idea though, accepting the woman.

  18. #38
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Probably should be in the "jokes" thread, but I just got sent this.. by my wife...

    WOMAN'S PERFECT BREAKFAST
    She's sitting at the table with her gourmet coffee.
    Her son is on the cover of the Wheaties box.
    Her daughter is on the cover of Business Week.
    Her boyfriend is on the cover of Playgirl.
    And her husband is on the back of the milk carton.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    WOMEN'S REVENGE
    'Cash, check or charge?' I asked, after folding items the woman wished to purchase.
    As she fumbled for her wallet, I noticed a remote control for a television set in her purse.
    'So, do you always carry your TV remote?' I asked.
    'No,' she replied, 'but my husband refused to come shopping with me,
    and I figured this was the most evil thing I could do to him legally.'


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    UNDERSTANDING WOMEN
    (A MAN'S PERSPECTIVE)
    I know I'm not going to understand women.
    I'll never understand how you can take boiling hot wax,
    pour it onto your upper thigh, rip the hair out by the root,
    and still be afraid of a spider.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    CIGARETTES AND TAMPONS
    A man walks into a pharmacy and wanders up & down the aisles..
    The sales girl notices him and asks him if she can help him.
    He answers that he is looking for a box of tampons for his wife.
    She directs him down the correct aisle.
    A few minutes later, he deposits a huge bag of cotton balls and a ball of string on the counter.
    She says, confused, 'Sir, I thought you were looking for some tampons for your wife?
    He answers, 'You see, it's like this,yesterday, I sent my wife to the store
    to get me a carton of cigarettes, and she came back with a tin of tobacco
    and some rolling papers; cause it's sooo-ooo--oo-ooo much cheaper.
    So, I figure if I have to roll my own .......... so does she.
    (I figure this guy is the one on the milk carton!)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    WIFE VS. HUSBAND
    A couple drove down a country road for several miles, not saying a word.
    An earlier discussion had led to an argument and
    neither of them wanted to concede their position.
    As they passed a barnyard of mules, goats, and pigs,
    the husband asked sarcastically, 'Relatives of yours?'
    'Yep,' the wife replied, 'in-laws.'


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    WORDS
    A husband read an article to his wife about how many words women use a day.
    30,000 to a man's 15,000.
    The wife replied, 'The reason has to be because we have to repeat everything to men...
    The husband then turned to his wife and asked, 'What?'


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    CREATION
    A man said to his wife one day, 'I don't knowhow you can be
    so stupid and so beautiful all at the same time.
    'The wife responded, 'Allow me to explain.
    God made me beautiful so you would beattracted to me;
    God made me stupid so I would be attracted to you!


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    WHO DOES WHAT
    A man and his wife were having an argument about who
    should brew the coffee each morning.
    The wife said, 'You should do it because you get up first,
    and then we don't have to wait as long to get our coffee.
    The husband said, 'You are in charge of cooking around here and
    you should do it, because that is your job, and I can just wait for my coffee.'
    Wife replies, 'No, you should do it, and besides, it is in the Bible that the man should do the coffee.'
    Husband replies, 'I can't believe that, show me.'
    So she fetched the Bible, and opened the New Testament and showed him at the top of several pages, that it indeed says ..'HEBREWS'


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    The Silent Treatment
    A man and his wife were having some problems at home
    and were giving each other the silent treatment.
    Suddenly, the man realized that the next day, he would need his wife to wake him
    at 5:0 0 AM for an early morning business flight.
    Not wanting to be the first to break the silence (and LOSE), he wrote on a piece of paper,
    'Please wake me at 5:00 AM.' He left it where he knew she would find it.
    The next morning, the man woke up, only to discover it was 9:00 AM and he had missed his flight Furious, he was about to go and see why his wife hadn't wakened him,
    when he noticed a piece of paper by the bed.
    The paper said, 'It is 5:00 AM. Wake up.'
    Men are not equipped for these kinds of contests.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    God may have created man before woman, but there is always a rough draft before the masterpiece!!

  19. #39
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    I must admit I found the question: Divine union or mortal contract? - too tough to answer so haven't responded yet to the poll but if you forced me to do so I would nowadays tend towards "Mortal contract" having found myself growing more cynical as the years have passed.

    I wanted to make some funny comments for everyone to enjoy, adding to the post above, but as I can't think of anything amusing I will give you an odd/funny fact taken from an old book (1974) by psychiatrist Dr Eustace Chesser called: "Is marriage necessary?"
    (See http://www.boris-johnson.com/forum/c...scussionID=196)

    This man challenged almost everything most of us would probably hold dear concerning marriage etc. (the words infidelity and adultery should become redundant he believed for example) but a funny fact I found in his book concerned marital practise in distant/barren parts of the world such as Tibet. Apparently, as a way of limiting the population, one woman would marry a man and have a child with him then subsequently marry/have a child with any/all of his brothers in succession (the point being that this one woman could only have so many children - much less than if each brother had his own wife)!

    How is that for a concept of marriage for you?

  20. #40
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    Re: Marriage: Divine union or mortal contract

    Quote Originally Posted by grahamg View Post
    I must admit I found the question: Divine union or mortal contract? - too tough to answer so haven't responded yet to the poll but if you forced me to do so I would nowadays tend towards "Mortal contract" having found myself growing more cynical as the years have passed.
    I voted for delightfully devine - but with the caveat that some people are not the type for marriage - they are just born that way - not their fault.

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