Dancing with Lady Leaders

[whitetiger1518]

I know Beo hasn't been dancing much lately( waste of a very good dancer), but wouldn't he let you practice leading him, at least until some of the moves stick??

I totally agree with the badges idea - I think we might have to implement it for tagging/ swapping so that people could tell who was playing,
though if we were to wear badges for each aspect, we might start to feel like scouts/brownies do, with badges all the way up both arms

WT

[Twirly]

I know Beo hasn't been dancing much lately( waste of a very good dancer), but wouldn't he let you practice leading him, at least until some of the moves stick??

I totally agree with the badges idea - I think we might have to implement it for tagging/ swapping so that people could tell who was playing,
though if we were to wear badges for each aspect, we might start to feel like scouts/brownies do, with badges all the way up both arms

WT

Nice idea but he hates being led! And it's not exactly easy in our small, carpeted living room either.

He does get on the dancefloor once in a while still - at his cousins wedding last month and we're up for the Beach Ballroom next month. But yes -waste of a good dancer, no matter how much I try and tell him that he is a good dancer, he's never good enough in his own eyes!

[whitetiger1518]

He does get on the dancefloor once in a while still - at his cousins wedding last month and we're up for the Beach Ballroom next month. But yes -waste of a good dancer, no matter how much I try and tell him that he is a good dancer, he's never good enough in his own eyes!

Yay Beach Ballroom :yay: I'm coming for the parties at least so I'll see you there. Can I book a dance or two in advance? If you want you can give leading me a go.


Cheers WT

[firefly]

Thank you to everyone who's replied so far.

There have been a few interesting points raised, some of which I'd like to pick up on.

A number of women have said they find it flattering/complimentary when another woman asks them to dance. Nesseiemonster has given a good explanation of why it might be flattering for a woman to be asked to lead. However I, and it seems I'm not the only one, also find it a huge compliment to be asked to follow another woman in freestyle; somehow even more so than the usual request to dance. I wonder why that is exactly?

[firefly]

Many people also seem to be saying that they tend not to ask "unknown" women to dance, as they are unsure of their attitudes to dancing with other women. In that case, how did you first find out that the women you do dance with are happy to do it? Is it really just a case of dancing only with your friends?

In my own case, I had somewhat of an epiphany at one of the Kirriemuir weekenders; I realised that I was potentially limiting my dance experience by dancing with men only. Having been asked to dance a handful of times since I started dancing by some excellent lady leaders, I spent the rest of the weekend asking every woman who I happened to see leading, and all were happy to oblige. This actually led to a lady asking me to dance because she said I looked so good dancing with other women. Unfortunately neither of us knew how to lead, so we ended up pretty much having a muggle dance holding hands; I think that was one of the catalysts for my deciding to learn to lead.

As for leading, I'm generally asked by women who've seen me taxiing, or occasionally have seen me leading in a class (off-duty). I sometimes ask friends to dance, and very rarely a woman who I don't know very well. However this is always someone who I've danced with in the class that night and I know is a regular at the venue, and there is a shortage of men. I don't feel confident enough in my leading skills to ask anyone in a normal freestyle, though if someone asked me I wouldn't turn them down.

It does seem to be a minefield, where folk are very wary of causing offence. Apart from Twirly's badges idea, is there any way of gauging the likely reaction to being asked to dance by another woman? Or is it simply a case of just asking, while giving the lady a chance to decline gracefully if she isn't comfortable with it?

[whitetiger1518]

I realised that I was potentially limiting my dance experience by dancing with men only.

As for leading, I'm generally asked by women who've seen me taxiing, or occasionally have seen me leading in a class (off-duty). I sometimes ask friends to dance, and very rarely a woman who I don't know very well. However this is always someone who I've danced with in the class that night and I know is a regular at the venue, and there is a shortage of men. I don't feel confident enough in my leading skills to ask anyone in a normal freestyle, though if someone asked me I wouldn't turn them down.

These both work for me - I don't want to limit my dancing, and even at gender balanced events men are sometimes scarce in particular rooms.


I have watched the taxis in class and female leaders in freestyle and asked them from then on. It is also interesting to watch some guys who are happy to be followers.

WT

[killingtime]

I think it is partly because these ladies are experienced dancers as followers themselves, and can judge on what they like or dislike as followers, and I think that they adjust their leading style to take account of this..

Interesting, that suggests a lead's time, if they are looking to improve, is better spent following than leading.

I don't see the reverse, particularly, where someone who is a good lead is a good follow (though there definitely are exceptional leads who are exceptional followers as well ). In fact one of the ways I reassure my ever fragile ego about how mediocre a follower I am is the fact that I maybe follow one dance a week, if I'm lucky, so I get a lot less time to learn it.

I have had what I have felt to be fantastic dances with men and then nothing said at the end - so I assume all their dances are that good or it wasn't as good as I thought (for them).

Don't assume that .

I don't always complement and it isn't because I just had a so/so dance it's just that I feel the woman might not have had as an enjoyable a dance as I did. From the statement you've given it seems you didn't say anything to them despite the fact you enjoyed the dance :P.

[Agente Secreto]

I have found the ladies who lead to be very good indeed and much more readily complimentary than male leads immediately after the dance - which is nice . I have had what I have felt to be fantastic dances with men and then nothing said at the end - so I assume all their dances are that good or it wasn't as good as I thought (for them).

Don't assume that .

I don't always complement and it isn't because I just had a so/so dance it's just that I feel the woman might not have had as an enjoyable a dance as I did. From the statement you've given it seems you didn't say anything to them despite the fact you enjoyed the dance :P.

Diana, you know that us guys are often not very communicative - women are simply more social creatures than us. Like Killingtime says I am someone that often forgets to compliment, hoping that the dance itself speaks enough for my enjoyment. I'll try and work on this aspect of my performance.....

Agent 000
Licensed to Dance

[firefly]

~SNIP~ I find it very difficult to watch two women lost in blues together...

~SNIP~ I am one of those people who will happily blues with women (sorry little 'un), though would never force that on a follower as not everyone will be comfortable with it. There are women who I will dance very UCP, down'n'dirty blues with, and I guess that looks very, well, down'n'dirty. It doesn't feel anything like that though, just a connected, musical dance. (And it can feel 'safer' than doing the same thing with a guy.)

I was thinking about the "two women dancing blues" aspect last night at the Rutherglen party. There was a definite shortage of men in the blues room, which led to a lot of "women dancing together" dances. Again, I've never had a problem dancing blues with another woman, but while I realised that someone else might not feel the same way, I'd never considered that they might actually find it difficult to watch two women dancing blues together.

Is this a widely held view that has somehow passed me by?
Little 'un, would you mind expanding a bit on why exactly you find it difficult to watch?

[StokeBloke]

...however, I find it very difficult to watch two women lost in blues together...

Why do you think this is? I have learned so much from watching F+F Blues dances. I am sure that watching F+F Blues dancing has improved my skills as a Blues dancer.

From a guy's perspective; I love dancing with ladies who can lead - but as I don't follow I always lead them. It's great dancing with someone who really understands how a dance is structured, although there are times when I dance with female leads who are exceptionally good at leading and it's a little daunting. Could they lead this better themselves? It does make you really up your game. Someone who isn't a 'lead' or a 'follow' but an accomplished dancer

[fletch]

I find it very difficult to watch two women lost in blues together...

I have no problem with two girls dancing blues, I believe I was the first to dance with 'The Tor' to blues, Its all about interpreting the music, and if its saying 'temptation' then that what's needed in the musicality, however it has been mentioned to me if people of the same sex are endlessly rocking in a circle can make on lockers feel uncomfortable and excluded, especially if the onlookers are relatively new to blues.

[jive-vee]

I have no problem with two girls dancing blues, I believe I was the first to dance with 'The Tor' to blues, Its all about interpreting the music, and if its saying 'temptation' then that what's needed in the musicality, however it has been mentioned to me if people of the same sex are endlessly rocking in a circle can make on lockers feel uncomfortable and excluded, especially if the onlookers are relatively new to blues.

I've not danced with Tor yet but she looks like a fab lead! I have no problem dancing with girls (even Blues) however I only follow (as I only know a couple of moves as a lead) so am unsure about asking ladies I don't know to lead me.

I wasn't aware that people rocking in a circle makes onlookers feel uncomfortable however often if I am doing that with somebody (male or female) then it's often because we're chatting. It's easier to chat, and not be disturbed by someone asking either one of you for a dance mid-conversation, if you are locked in a blues embrace.

[fletch]

I wasn't aware that people rocking in a circle makes onlookers feel uncomfortable however often if I am doing that with somebody (male or female) then it's often because we're chatting. It's easier to chat, and not be disturbed by someone asking either one of you for a dance mid-conversation, if you are locked in a blues embrace.

Ho gosh no I dance and chat in a circle all the time I would never dance if that was the case

I ment then there no chatting just embracing, for a long time, it could be that one or both just need a hug we all need one of those from time to time, its only been mentioned a few times and the embrase lasted ?? 8, 9, 15?? tracks, and it was two girls, we some time don't think when we are in a differnet place in our minds.

But have you ever been in a que at the check out and the couple in front are petting, its just feels a bit awkward.

[Easily Led]

Diana, you know that us guys are often not very communicative - women are simply more social creatures than us. Like Killingtime says I am someone that often forgets to compliment, hoping that the dance itself speaks enough for my enjoyment. I'll try and work on this aspect of my performance.....

Agent 000
Licensed to Dance

Hey, I was totally thrilled to get a "Great" from you last time as before I've never been better than "Good" (delivered in a very seductive Scottish accent of course!) I will always try to compliment a beginner at the end of a dance but I am not great at it with people I am in awe of so I usually try to compensate by thanking people on the forum. Sorry if this is off topic.

[crystaltips]

I love the badges idea!

I also really enjoy leading, but get complacent about it when there are guys around that I like dancing with (and there are a lot of them!) so i don't do it as much as i should! I genuinely want to be a better lead but realise i need to make a bigger effort and I often promise myself that 'tonight, I am going to lead all night" but just can't say no to the guys. I do prefer dancing with men but I've had fab girl dances too. When i do lead, i also usually ask one of my friends. I think that is simply so that I don't embarrass anyone. IMO, women are much more attuned to "feelings" and because we are aware that there is, however slight, a possibility that someone might get offended, we tend to avoid risking it other than with people who we know will say yes. I am always more than happy to dance if asked by a lady though, and being a taxi dancer, I suppose I do get that a fair bit, usually someone who wants me to go over a particular move. I have gotten a bit "bluesey" with one or two pals, but very much tongue in cheek and not at all that anyone would believe was genuine "intimacy", i think the giggling and falling about laughing gives it away.
I'd also like to lead a few guys. I've watched them and thought 'wish i could do that' so what better way to learn than by dancing with them. I've been soooo close to asking one or two who I know follow but then have chickened out at the last minute because I'm nowhere near as good at leading as they are. And yes, I know that's ridiculous, cos I'm sure that all the guy-follows would all be generous enough firstly, to say yes, and then to not be minded about me not going for "fancy" moves that they can do.

[CheesyRobMan]

however it has been mentioned to me if people of the same sex are endlessly rocking in a circle can make on lockers feel uncomfortable and excluded, especially if the onlookers are relatively new to blues.

The first time I went to Ceroc in NI having just moved over, Drathzel was teaching a blues class in the intermediates with Lynn as her demo. It was wiggly and there was a bit of grinding too. I think I went

[killingtime]

IMO, women are much more attuned to "feelings" and because we are aware that there is, however slight, a possibility that someone might get offended, we tend to avoid risking it other than with people who we know will say yes.

I think it's the same for guys dancing with guys (maybe a little more so). I've spent weeks trying to build up the confidence to ask a fabulous blues lead if he'll lead me but I'm just not sure he'll say yes so I haven't. I've been turned down by a couple of guys before that I thought would be fine with dancing with another man; it wasn't actually that bad to be turned down by someone who just said it wasn't something they'd do so I'm not really sure why I hesitate because of fear of rejection or something like that.

I'd also like to lead a few guys. I've watched them and thought 'wish i could do that' so what better way to learn than by dancing with them. I've been soooo close to asking one or two who I know follow but then have chickened out at the last minute because I'm nowhere near as good at leading as they are. And yes, I know that's ridiculous, cos I'm sure that all the guy-follows would all be generous enough firstly, to say yes, and then to not be minded about me not going for "fancy" moves that they can do.

If you see them lead something and think you'd like to be able to do that don't assume that they can follow it as well. If it was something they were doing while following then awesome!

As a guy who enjoys following I don't get asked anywhere near as much as I'd like to. So I'm delighted if someone asks me if I'd mind following them. The same truths hold to most male follows too that I'd rather follow some simple moves lead well than super complex moves lead poorly; and, since my following is much weaker than my leading, I'd rather prefer people tend to keep it "easy".

Anyway this seems to be getting a bit off topic.

[StokeBloke]

Blues dancing as so much about connection, at times the movements are almost invisible to anyone watching. Tiny small little movements that need heaps of concentration to follow. Maybe that's why they're not chatting, they're too busy dancing

As for making other people in the room uncomfortable, when you get a partner to dance Blues with like that, then the rest of the room just vanishes anyway. I doubt these couples are even aware that there are other people there - ahhhhh Blues bliss

[Princess Fi]

I think it's the same for guys dancing with guys (maybe a little more so). I've spent weeks trying to build up the confidence to ask a fabulous blues lead if he'll lead me but I'm just not sure he'll say yes so I haven't. I've been turned down by a couple of guys before that I thought would be fine with dancing with another man; it wasn't actually that bad to be turned down by someone who just said it wasn't something they'd do so I'm not really sure why I hesitate because of fear of rejection or something like that.

Am I the only one who read this and just went "awwwww!!!!!"

[crystaltips]

As a guy who enjoys following I don't get asked anywhere near as much as I'd like to.

If ever we are in the same room, you're on!!