Midlands Champs 21st Nov 2009

[ElaineB]

Dances such as ballroom, latin and WCS all have a very defined path about what constitutes what level, normally meaning you have to gain so many points or win som many competitions before you have to move up (these also tend to be tied into how many competitors compete). Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be the same thing in the modern jive world. Until modern jive sorts this out and has some central points registry body I think you'll always have this arguement.

Quite! I made this point some years ago, (but can't be bothered to find the post - sorry!)

Elaine

[fletch]

There is a large crowd gathering at Halesown on the Friday before the Champs.

Don't think there is any more room left at 'the fletch's inn' Debbie might be able to squeeze a couple in

party, party, party.

[CheesyRobMan]

I honestly don't get the appeal of comps. Why would anyone want to go and dance in front of a panel of people who are deliberately looking for the faults and slips and lack of flair and repetition and problems with your dancing? And the inevitable patronising smugness of anyone who placed above you. Reminded of being forced into competitions at school, coming last (inevitably) and being told "well, someone had to lose, may as well have been the worst person" Can't really think of anything worse, I think dancing in a comp would kill my dancing, totally and permanently. I would rather not dance again than have to show it off to people looking to rip it apart. There's always someone (or a lot of people) better than you, so just relax and enjoy it, we do this for fun for goodness' sake!

(I've been asked to partner someone in an advanced level comp, and turned it down because a) I am not and never will be good enough even if I tried, and b) I couldn't spare the time for hours and hours of practice when faced with the inevitable failure at the end.)

[Yliander]

I honestly don't get the appeal of comps. Why would anyone want to go and dance in front of a panel of people who are deliberately looking for the faults and slips and lack of flair and repetition and problems with your dancing? And the inevitable patronising smugness of anyone who placed above you. Reminded of being forced into competitions at school, coming last (inevitably) and being told "well, someone had to lose, may as well have been the worst person" Can't really think of anything worse, I think dancing in a comp would kill my dancing, totally and permanently. I would rather not dance again than have to show it off to people looking to rip it apart. There's always someone (or a lot of people) better than you, so just relax and enjoy it, we do this for fun for goodness' sake!

(I've been asked to partner someone in an advanced level comp, and turned it down because a) I am not and never will be good enough even if I tried, and b) I couldn't spare the time for hours and hours of practice when faced with the inevitable failure at the end.)

fair enough - comps aren't for everyone -but no-one can force you to enter one.

[Bubble]

I thought this when I dreamt up the categories and rules for Britrock many years ago. Putting it simply, the intermediates are for amateurs, if you have won anything except DWAS in any of the national Modern Jive competitions you can not enter the intermediates at Britrock. This means you are forced by the rules to enter the Advanced or the Open - which is where you belong once your trophy cabinet starts to fill up.

I see the intermediates as the place for novice competitors or those still to make their mark in competition. And it's the place to stay while you are gaining competition experience. The Advanced is the Open for amateurs who are good dance competitors.

It's an age old issue and it is one of the few things that genuinely sickens me. I hate seeing well and truly advanced dancers skiving about in the inters category. I mean no disrespect to the inters category, but we all know people in there that belong in advanced.

By not moving up when they should, not only have they hijacked the inters category but they've put a nail in the coffin for the Advanced competitors, too...

If Mike is reading this, I would love to see an Advanced category. I would also like to see more couples moved up into the appropriate place...

OK, I'll shut up now...

All the competitions have slightly different rules which doesn’t really help. How about some co-ordination between the organisers?

For example, the restrictions on entering intermediates from the various websites read like this:

Britrock
“All competitors must not be dance teachers or professional dancers, or have won an intermediate or higher category at any national Modern Jive competition.”

Implication, you can enter as an intermediate any number of times, provided you don’t come first, here, or anywhere else

Blackpool chance to dance
“If either competitor has previously won the Intermediate category of A Chance 2 Dance Ltd they are not allowed to enter this category.”

No mention of exclusions if a competitor has won elsewhere.

Ceroc Champs
“If in the opinion of the judges, entrants in the intermediate competition are of an advanced standard they will be asked to move up to the advanced category or disqualified.”

A bit woolly, your category could change part way through the competition. Do you have to settle the difference in entry fees before you can continue?

Weston-Super-Mare
“Dancers from the Advanced freestyle section will not be permitted to enter this section.”

A free for all apart from the bar on teachers/professionals

I feel it would be appropriate to restrict intermediates to those that have never placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in any national competition. That ought to create a steady stream of people entering advanced and give everyone else coming up into intermediates a chance.

[alinp]

I feel it would be appropriate to restrict intermediates to those that have never placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in any national competition. That ought to create a steady stream of people entering advanced and give everyone else coming up into intermediates a chance.

As someone who entered his 1st comp this w/e (and loved the day, I hasten to add) I was surprised at the size of the entry for Ints (which had 4 rounds, inc the final) yet only enough for a straight final for Advanced. Is this a lack of Advanced dancers or due to the issue raised by this thread???

Perhaps this 1, 2, 3 idea has merit, but could Britrock, LeRoc, Ceroc, C2D etc all agree??????????

[Achaeco]

Bubble. We have (at the UK Open Jive Comp( Blackpool) approched ceroc in the past to try and get a scoring system in place and unified rules. This, as you can see, never materialised.
So, as we have the most sort after MJ titles in the UK (Feedback) we came to the decition that we would have to stand alone and recognise no other comp (regarding who can enter what).

[Andy McGregor]

As someone who entered his 1st comp this w/e (and loved the day, I hasten to add) I was surprised at the size of the entry for Ints (which had 4 rounds, inc the final) yet only enough for a straight final for Advanced. Is this a lack of Advanced dancers or due to the issue raised by this thread???

Perhaps this 1, 2, 3 idea has merit, but could Britrock, LeRoc, Ceroc, C2D etc all agree??????????

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself

I think there's two factors at work in the difference between the entry for Advanced and Intermediate. The first factor is that most MJ dancers consider themselves intermediates - after all, that's what the second lesson is usually called. The second factor is that the Advanced category was not run at Britrock last year so there was nobody having a second go at winning and nobody defending their Advanced crown. When the Advanced was run every year there were more entries. I expect there to be more Advanced entries next year.

I have toyed with the idea of 1st, 2nd & 3rd placed couples being promoted to Advanced. My reasoning for keeping it to winners only has always been that people like to win and should be given the chance to do so before moving up.

[Harry]

I was really looking forward to competiting.... But now Josh cant make it

So I an undecided if I am going to go now as i hate sitting and watching all day, because all i want to do is be out there on the dancefloor and compete !!!!

Such a shame about the advanced catagory though, would have thought more people would be up for it.
And it would also be nice to have a double trouble cat at all competitions, as i love taking part in it

Danni

[Terpsichorea]

Is the Open going to be organised in the same way as last year? Three rounds of Latin, Jive and Swing with no knock-out stages?

[DD+]

And it would also be nice to have a double trouble cat at all competitions, as i love taking part in it

Danni

Me too - and its only 5 entries needed at most comps so not that hard to fill

[Harry]

Me too - and its only 5 entries needed at most comps so not that hard to fill

Yeah i thought that was how it normally is !!!

I need to find a replacement for Josh for next week i think !!
I really want to enter !!
xx

[CJ]

Guys, Girls....

Just to let U know the advanced category is going to go ahead!!!!!!

However, Mike REALLY needs U to book as soon as possible.

So, please meet him half way here... GET YOUR ENTRIES IN!!!!

See U all there....

[Bubble]

I think there's two factors at work in the difference between the entry for Advanced and Intermediate. The first factor is that most MJ dancers consider themselves intermediates - after all, that's what the second lesson is usually called.

My observations suggest that the kind of 'intermediates' that come 1st 2nd and 3rd in the intermediates category don't generally bother much with intermediate classes. The ones who really are intermediates are therefore just reduced to fodder to provide money for prizes and medals.

Whether someone is a teacher is also a rather grey area. e.g. One half of the Ceroc teaching arrangement is a 'demonstrator' rather than a 'teacher'.

I appreciate your points of view and I also feel that for you to take further action now would not be appropriate as you already have the most restrictive policy in this area when compared to the other competitions. Therefore, the gap opened up between Britrock and all others could become too great.

However, I do still think the restrictions on the intermediate category need tightening up and that this would improve the health of the competition scene a lot.

[Mike Allsopp]

Is the Open going to be organised in the same way as last year? Three rounds of Latin, Jive and Swing with no knock-out stages?

Indeed it will, the format seemed to go down very well last year and, in my humble one, we got the best all round couple as a result. I think it also gives the competitors thier money's worth

As CJ has said I really need the 'Advanced' folks to book asap. I've ordered another trophy and the link is already on the payment page www.cerocmidlands.co.uk/midlandschamps.htm

I appreciate some people already booked in the Intermediate category might want to move up though I'd be grateful if those booked in the 'Open' stuck with it so as not to deplete that competition.

Anyone already booked wanting to move up needs to contact me on cerocmidlands@aol.com

I'm guessing we will be having something similar to the 'Open' category, in this case it will be a 'two-part' final with Jive and Latin rounds and no knock-out.

Thanks for supporting the event, hope you have a good day and good luck if you are entering.

Mike A

[Andy McGregor]

I appreciate your points of view and I also feel that for you to take further action now would not be appropriate as you already have the most restrictive policy in this area when compared to the other competitions. Therefore, the gap opened up between Britrock and all others could become too great.

Thank you for understanding what this is about. Although the entry criteria are the most restrictive of any amateur modern jive category, I can't imagine them being any less restrictive - there's really only one restriction more than the intermediate level.

On the subject of standardisation of rules of judging across all competitions, I really can't see this happening any time soon. Consider scoring, I believe that using raw scores means that judges who apply a high differential between the lowest and highest score have a disproportionate influence over the result. That's why I use relative placement. All the other MJ competitions use raw scores as far as I can ascertain. I've published the method we use for Britrock and have given blanket permission for it to be used at other competitions. That was 6 years ago ...

[StokeBloke]

Looking at the Midland Champs website, I thought it was worth pointing this rule out from the Showcase catagory:

• Each couple must dance to their own music which must be provided to the organisers no later than Friday, 8th April, on a CD of between 3 - 5 minutes in length. (Please note that we cannot accept tapes or minidiscs).

If you are still thinking of taking part in this section, possibly the most exciting of all the categories you are already too late

[Mike Allsopp]

I think we can be flexible with this as we have in previous years, so long as the music is prepared i.e. intro cuts etc and appropriate in length then our DJ's will take it on the day.

Mike

[Tiggerbabe]

Looking at the Midland Champs website, I thought it was worth pointing this rule out from the Showcase catagory:

• Each couple must dance to their own music which must be provided to the organisers no later than Friday, 8th April, on a CD of between 3 - 5 minutes in length. (Please note that we cannot accept tapes or minidiscs).

If you are still thinking of taking part in this section, possibly the most exciting of all the categories you are already too late

This is common to almost ALL competitions, showcase music is always asked for in advance (it's not always forthcoming though ) and for some competitions you need to provide a video of your showcase, when applying.

[DavidB]

But asking for the music in April for a competition in November is a bit keen.