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Thread: Permission to steal?

  1. #21
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    I have just reread the entire thread and noticed that I have spelt Lory wrong on all of my posts...Sorry babe.

    I indicated a tag with zimbabwean and had the negative head shake from him to indicate no.

    No offence was taken either way and dancing was resumed without any mishaps. He's lovely by the way.

    DTS XXX XXX

  2. #22
    Senior Member zimbabwean's Avatar
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    I have just reread the entire thread and noticed that I have spelt Lory wrong on all of my posts...Sorry babe.

    I indicated a tag with zimbabwean and had the negative head shake from him to indicate no.

    No offence was taken either way and dancing was resumed without any mishaps. He's lovely by the way.

    DTS XXX XXX


  3. #23
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    I enjoy watching tag/steals and once saw a 4 way tag at the end of a class night at JJs - Phenomenal to watch

    I have never been stolen or tagged myself - and would only really be comfortable with it happening between leads that knew me well, and know what I can cope with. (Definitely don't want to be dipped by those that don't know me, but then that goes for ordinary dances too! )


    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Fi View Post

    Once was during a mass steal dance for which (as DTS suggested) I gave the guy benefit of the doubt. However when he marched me into a corner and refused to let anyone else steal me, I thought that was a bit uncool (and you can tell from my tone I would have appreicated being stolen)

    The second, I had to give out the SOS look to a helpful lead who was kind enough to steal me from the offending guy and return me to the chap I had been dancing with (also not sounding great there - I'm setting feminism back years) The person I had been dancing with was a newbie who didn't know much about steal dances and probably wasn't confident enough to steal me back.
    Oh Princess you are so much cooler than I would ever be... Instead of that subtle SOS, I would have given a non mistakable signal (using at least my elbows and possibly my knees) If I had been a) stolen by someone I didn't want to be with (b) been backed into the corner so I couldn't either escape or be rescued!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowWhite View Post
    I know the people that enjoy tagging have a great deal of fun and it adds to their evening - but it isn't really for me, and I do get a little panicky when it is going on around me...

    I don't really want to do it, I want to enjoy the entire dance with the person that I am with, but often the very nature of tagging leaves you with what feels like very little choice.

    How do you refuse without seeming like a kill-joy?

    I have seen many unsuspecting guys have ladies taken from them, and in the case of the more inexperienced dancers, they can sometimes see it as a reflection on them - that somehow the stealer doesn't think they are good enough etc.

    I've had ladies get quite panicky when they don't understand it too, worrying that there was going to be 'trouble' when they were taken from a partner and not knowing how to get back to them.

    My personal feeling about tagging is that it probably feels better and works better in a 'main room' rather than a Blues room. A blues room is a place where people are striving to form a perfect connection between themselves and their partner and obviously the music - being tagged or having mass tagging going on around you, doesn't make for the best environment in which to achieve that IMHO.
    In a blues room I am far more likely to be with a partner whom I have chosen for connection...And you would seriously get in my bad books, if you tried to steal me...

    On the other hand I have seen some absolutely superb steals/ tags beween some of the best dancers in the Blues room, who obviously all got such a buzz from it.

    Very good point though - How does a follow say no without breaking the dance? Or do only leads get the choice?

    Cheers WT

  4. #24
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    I don't mind 'trying' to formulate a set of rules but I firstly need to know..

    Where are these rules to be posted

    and secondly... the couple/persons, doing the initial steel, we can call the 'taggers' but what shall we call (for want of a better word just now) the 'victims'?
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  5. #25
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    1stly how about naming the thread Suggested etiquette for tagging.

    2ndly we could call the people to be tagged the PV, ie potential victims.

    Lory chop chop quick as you like love, and make me a cup of tea before you start,there's a good girl.

    DTS XXX XXX

  6. #26
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    we can call the 'taggers' but what shall we call (for want of a better word just now) the 'victims'?

    taggees ?

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    Cool Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Oh and given that tagging/swapping/stealing/whatever you want to term it...
    I think this is part of the problem Rob. Tag, swap and steal are very different games. As the oxymoron of this thread's title would suggest, you don't ask for permission to steal. If your partner is stolen from you, you need to either shrug and walk away, or steal her back. Because of the minefield of problems with this sort of game, this is usually only played by dancers who know each other very well and/or dance together often.

    Tag on the other hand is an agreed game that often involves leads delivering the follow to each other as they take turns to dance with her. Swap is a similar deal, but with pairs of dancers (or more) swapping follows. The emphasis on ALL three variants should be to do everything as smoothly and seamlessly as possible.

    So, should someone steal another dancer's partner? That's a very subjective question as it depends on a whole heap of factors. I would say though, that if in any doubt, don't! There are very few people that I would feel comfortable enough with to interrupt their dance to steal their partner - I could probably count them on the toes one hand*

    Most important of all; great care needs to be taken when playing these sorts of games. Boys are known to be quite competitive and it's important to remember that this isn't a 'win at all costs' wrestling challenge. People can get hurt whilst dancing together, let alone when someone else pops into the equation unannounced.


    *slight exaggeration for comedic effect

  8. #28
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    My first ever experience of this was at Kirriemuir 3 years ago. I thought it was fantastic fun to have danced with at least 3 people by the end of the dance (I seem to recall at least CJ, Trampy and The Passion Harem being involved ) On that occasion I had no idea what was happening.

    Since then I've had some awesome consensual steal dances, always preordained, at least by the leads, most notably with Killingtime, Louisa (miss you guys) and The Passion Harem , but also at times involving firefly's lovely husband .

    But I really Dislike it going on, non-consensually, in a blues room. This happened to me at the last Southport I was at (June 2008), where there seemed to be a group of guys intent on making every dance a steal dance. I got taken from a particularly lovely lead who I didn't ever manage to find again. It prevented me dancing to some wonderful music in there because I didn't want to have more dances ruined.

    I like the idea of a set etiquette, but I fear that those who most need to pay attention will not be reading this forum...

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    In my opinion, stealing a lady who I don't already know fairly well from a guy I also don't really know would be plain rude as I can't possibly know how they are likely to react.

    With that said, I have danced tag/steal plenty of times with people I dance with regularly (not that I'm much good at it..!) and have great fun doing it.

    At my smaller venue I encourage a game I have called "switch" with is nothing more than mass swap. Nearly everyone has great fun doing it, they know it's about to happen (so have the choice not to join in if they don't want to) and it helps mix things up.

    These sort of games are meant to be fun. Plain and simple. And like most fun things, rules would do nothing but stiffle the fun a wee bit. Beside - the "rules" would be nothing more than teaching people manners (again - in my opinion)

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    The only time I recall this happening to me was late on in a blues room, when the sultry mood was in full sway (at least for my partner and I), attempts were made to physically force us apart, but we clung on tight.

    It's obvious really, there should be some form of consent. I'm OK with it as a "get the party going" thing, but when I'm deep into the music and my partner, I'm not interested.

    Greg

  11. #31
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    A lot of people are hammering the point of tagging in the blues room when it is inappropriate. I personally look at couples before tagging, if a slow sultry song is on I am normally wrapped around a girl or a bloke and in a moment myself.

    I think it is the over enthusiastic taggers with whom the problem lies. This is probably down to inadequate training and experience.

    DTS XXX XXX

  12. #32
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    For me, you have to make the difference between tagging and stealing.

    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but to me;

    Stealing is when your parter is taken away from you, often replaced with another, and you may or may not see that initial partner again by the time the track finishes.

    Tagging is when an extra lead (or leads) take over from the initial lead, and the follow is passed between the two (or more) follows throughout the track. I've been part of multiway tagging before, with about 5 leads and about 3 follows, but the group stayed together the whole dance, just switch partners.

    For me, stealing my partner outright can be very annoying, all depends on the dance I'm having at the time. If im into it and having fun, then I don't want my partner taken away. I do remember at the end of Rev's 50th do, that a big steal dance was going on and I changed partner several times, but that was a rare exception.

    Tagging, especially to a fun and funky kind of track is often a great laugh, and I've tagged with the likes of DTS and Steve many a time, and most follows revel in the attentions of 2 or more leads, but usually the tagging happens early on in the track, so the follow has some idea of what is going on. I will only tag with those guys I know, or if invited into it, and will seek consent from the other lead first. Often, when the follow has no idea of what is going on, that is when tagging is the most fun

    My rules for tagging and stealing would be this. If stealing a persons partner, seek some form of consent first. When tagging, also seek consent, or just stick to tagging with those that you know.

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    Often, when the follow has no idea of what is going on, that is when tagging is the most fun
    Unless they were really enjoying a nice smooth connected dance and suddenly get tagged onto a jerky... well, jerk.

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan View Post
    Unless they were really enjoying a nice smooth connected dance and suddenly get tagged onto a jerky... well, jerk.
    If you bothered to read the whole post you woud read that Poi Boy seeks consent 1st.

    There seems to be a lot of selective quoting of bits people don't like in posts without considering the whole post.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    I will only tag with those guys I know, or if invited into it, and will seek consent from the other lead first. Often, when the follow has no idea of what is going on, that is when tagging is the most fun

    My rules for tagging and stealing would be this. If stealing a persons partner, seek some form of consent first. When tagging, also seek consent, or just stick to tagging with those that you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    If you bothered to read the whole post you woud read that Poi Boy seeks consent 1st.

    There seems to be a lot of selective quoting of bits people don't like in posts without considering the whole post.
    Given that Poi Boi seems to be talking about getting the lead's consent, not the follower's, I'd be inclined to say: 'right back atcha' on that one, Mr TS....
    Last edited by straycat; 22nd-October-2009 at 03:43 PM.

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Myself, I do a fair bit of stealing. Not tried tagging.

    There are some rules that I, and most people I would do this with will follow, and they tend to amount to: Use your common sense.

    A quick summary though:
    1) Generally, only by prior arrangement - usually a small group of us spontaneously decided to have a steal dance to the next track. Under normal circumstances, I would never go and disrupt someone's dance uninvited - I hate having it done to me, so I wouldn't do it to others.
    2) If you're not sure whether someone's participating, leave them alone.
    3) Never ever, EVER use force, either to steal, or to retain your partner. It's not fun. It's not nice for the follow at all. And it's not necessary. See point 4)
    4) Half the fun comes from being spontaneous, creative and clever when stealing. Otherwise, what's the point?

    That's probably about it.

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Straycat I could not agree with you more.

    We are not talking about considerate dancers who tag/steal with common sense. We are talking the inconsiderate ones who ruin dances and are over excited by the whole concept.


    DTS XXX XXX

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    Cool Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    I think it is the over enthusiastic taggers with whom the problem lies. This is probably down to inadequate training and experience.

    DTS XXX XXX
    Agreed.

    Perhaps it would help if when these 'fun' classes to teach swapping and tagging are run, the teacher could possibly spend... ohhh I don't know... a minute or two to explain the etiquette. Well I say etiquette, but really all we're talking about here is basic common sense and manners isn't it?

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    There is maybe a terminology thing here.

    Stealing to me means taking something without consent. Which I do not like.
    Tagging to me means swapping partners, pre-aranged. Which I do like.

    I have often "shared" a lady with another man , very rarely would I ask the lady first, it would be more of a supprise for her.

    Sometimes it is pre-arranged by me and another lead, and sometimes the nod and wink from another lead when dancing.

    Allways it has been a lot of fun.

    I would only normally do it with followers I know well, as a bit of fun for one track, and tag often within the dance.

    The beauty being in the smooth tags.

    Above I am thinking of two or more leads and one follower, moving on to "partner tagging" this I have done, but again only after a nod and a wink from the other lead, and then supprise the followers, but give them back soon.

    It is all part of playing, but then you need to play nice.

  20. #40
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Personally I never steal during a dance; I do always make eye contact with the lead and ask his permission before. This was how it happened with Marc and Jive-vee at Southport (Yeah it was a bit special Jive-vee). Marc gave me a wink and nod before we started tagging her. Personally I will only ever tag with a leads I know and prefer smaller groups that stick to themselves. Permission should always be give but I think like many on here have said already there is a big difference between Tag and Steal.

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