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Thread: Permission to steal?

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Permission to steal?

    I posted the following on the Southport aftermath thread

    Oh and given that tagging/swapping/stealing/whatever you want to term it seems to be raised a lot in this thread could I ask that those involved please try and pick your next target a little more judiciously? In the midst of a slow bluesy shuffle with Koshka we suddenly feel our arms being tugged to swap partners despite showing no interest in nor inclination to join the proceedings. We resisted and stayed together but it did kinda burst that blues bubble temporarily
    and a few people agreed with my sentiments later in the thread. However I also received neg rep advising me to 'lighten up' from XXXX. Whilst I'd normally take neg rep from him as a sign that I was on the right track I thought I'd start a thread to determine whether people feel there is any kind of etiquette that should be applied to partner stealing. If you frequently participate in steal dances what is in your mind as you select your next target? Or do you just grab at random?
    Last edited by Lory; 20th-October-2009 at 06:01 PM. Reason: removed name

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Now then I enjoy a bit of tagging, however I normally try to make eye contact with the lead and mouth " TAG" at him, whilst making a T sign with my hand. I did this twice at Southport and was greeted with a shaking of the head, indicating no Tag for this dance.

    It is only common manners really. Now if a mass Tag is going on then a bit of a free for all is generally the rule.

    My opinion only pips.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Only happened to me once, I was not familiar with the concept and was left going as someone else nicked my partner mid dance and danced off with her! She was returned fairly quickly - think the stealer realised I wasn't in on the game and was looking perplexed and somewhat annoyed...

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    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Now then I enjoy a bit of tagging, however I normally try to make eye contact with the lead and mouth " TAG" at him, whilst making a T sign with my hand. I did this twice at Southport and was greeted with a shaking of the head, indicating no Tag for this dance.

    It is only common manners really. Now if a mass Tag is going on then a bit of a free for all is generally the rule.

    My opinion only pips.

    DTS XXX XXX
    It's a tricky one this. Not disagreeing entirely with you on this one DTS but your post implies that it's only agreement of the leads that matters. Mass tags can be fun - especially in the early hours of the morning when you know you can easily get back the partner you initially wanted for a solo dance or two. However as a follow there are times when I would be mildly gutted if I was enjoying an incredibly smooth, expressive dance where my partner and I were really in sync only to be stolen away by a bouncier/different style of lead. If the leads have a very similar style though it can be lovely though.

    Personally though I prefer to be the only follow with a couple of leads swapping/stealing me - but I doubt I'm the only follow to have that preference because, when it works, the dance feels amazing. Just wish I could relive that dance from Southport!

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    I absolutely agree with RobD's sentiments

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Now then I enjoy a bit of tagging, however I normally try to make eye contact with the lead and mouth " TAG" at him, whilst making a T sign with my hand. I did this twice at Southport and was greeted with a shaking of the head, indicating no Tag for this dance.
    My thoughts entirely. I'd be annoyed if I was in the blues room and in a bubble and had my partner riped away from me and replaced - and I be really annoyed if this was one of those 'right person, right track' moments. Taggers should make eye contact and seek permission to interupt - dancing is after all something that requires consent from the parties engaged.

    Of course, I've seen lots of guys that tag as an organised pair, swapping the girl between them as a pre-arranged partnership. From a tagging perspective this would be ok - but of course does nothing for the gender imbalance.

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Are we agreeing on this one jive-vee?

    I think we are, if I am tagging I look at the next victim and if a moment is happening I would never tag them.

    I have had 2 or 3 guys tagging a lone female and the female is made to feel very special by the undivided attention of 2 or 3 guys.

    I have been tagged whilst in a moment, and it is bloody annoying, however as with all styles of dancing some dancers are more considerate than others.

    I was once dancing with another guy and it was turning into a memorable dance, which we were both really enjoying and a female stole him from me. Stone me we were both fuming, but thats dancing for you.

    Do elucidate on your memorable dance at Southport, ie with whom etc etc. You can add in the shower scene at an all girls school if you like.

    DTS XXX XX
    Last edited by dave the scaffolder; 20th-October-2009 at 06:30 PM.

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    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Are we agreeing on this one jive-vee?

    I think we are, if I am tagging I look at the next victim and if a moment is happening I would never tag them.

    I have had 2 or 3 guys tagging a lone female and the female is made to feel very special by the undivided attention of 2 or 3 guys.
    [snip]

    Do elucidate on your memorable dance at Southport, ie with whom etc etc. You can add in the shower scene at an all girls school if you like.

    DTS XXX XX
    Haha it certainly does seem like we are almost agreeing here DTS, Well I never, maybe we'll even dance together again next time we're in the same place

    I've already raved about my best dance at Southport on the aftermath thread . I was dancing with one of my most favourite dancers - Marc Forster - we were having another particularly connected dance when I suddenly felt some arms around my waist and I was being lead backwards away from him. It was very early on the Sunday morning so I wasn't too worried about going along with it but I did initially think "ummmm, I'm being taken away from him??!". However, it turned out to be KPS and both the leading and the changes from them both was so smooth that it was one of my most memorable dances ever. We all seemed to be in the same zone and it was fab to be the focus of attention of two very lovely leads

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Secreto View Post

    Of course, I've seen lots of guys that tag as an organised pair, swapping the girl between them as a pre-arranged partnership. From a tagging perspective this would be ok - but of course does nothing for the gender imbalance.
    Technically it doesn't help, but I think there comes a point where people have to not be quite so militant about the gender balance bit. I mean if you apply the same logic, should we not ban double trouble dances where the gender balance is spot on? Or insist that a certain number of double trouble dnaces take place in order to correct an "off" gender balance? Or ban men from dancing with men where there are too many women? I know these seem extreme options, but you get what I mean.

    Back to the thread topic tho, I think getting permission is a must from the leads invovled. I've only been stolen against my will twice (that doesn't sound right really.)

    Once was during a mass steal dance for which (as DTS suggested) I gave the guy beenfit of the doubt. However when he marched me into a ciorner and refused to let anyone else steal me, I thought that was a bit uncool (and you can tell from my tone I would have appreicated being stolen)

    The second, I had to give out the SOS look to a helpful lead who was kind enough to steal me from the offending guy and return me to the chap I had been dancing with (also not sounding great there - I'm setting feminism back years) The person I had been dancing with was a newbie who didn't know much about steal dances and probably wasn't confident enough to steal me back.

    Realistically I think that getting permission from both lead and follow is going to be difficult, and I'm not sure I always would want to go down that route. The surprise of finding that the person who you finish a move with is different from the one who lead you into it is something I love. Same as feeling yourself, mid move, being taken from behind by some random person (... wait, did that come out right? )

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    I think it is bad manners to ask a lady to dance if she is in the middle of a chat with a guy, so I am even more averse to the idea of non-consenual tagging.

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    I think there's just a need for some basic social skills here...

    If a couple look like they're in a deep private discussion, one would go barging in and interrupt

    but if they're looking around and engaging with other people and look open to interaction, then I reckon its OK to go over and say hello.

    The same goes for dancing.

    If a couple appear very 'in to' the dance and closed off to interaction, I think it would feel rude and disrespectful to interupt

    The potential victims have a part to play here too, I think they should make sure they don't give off the wrong signals. Try to avoid eye contact and encouraging looks, if your not up for joining in.

    At the end of the day though, dancing is a social activity and mistakes can be made, so lets not make too bigger issue out of what is potentially a very 'friendly' gesture and I know of a few incidences where a simple tag dance has broken the ice between people and great friendships have been formed
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Most of us are saying the same thing here.

    There is a time and a place for tagging, as in all things some people get over excited and tag at the wrong moment. As in dancing as a whole, it is just another tool in our dancing tool bag. Sometimes mistakes are made and sometimes it can be wonderfull. A bit of accepted tagging rules, that we adhere to would not be a bad idea, IMHO.

    As jive-vee pointed out to me on another thread recently .... Cant we just dance and be happy.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I think it is bad manners to ask a lady to dance if she is in the middle of a chat with a guy, so I am even more averse to the idea of non-consenual tagging.
    Then dont do it then mate, simple really. This tagging is being discussed because of what happened between dancers who know each other on the southport weekend. If someone is going to tag you, give them a glare that should shoo them away very effectivley, no offence intended.

    DTS XXX xXX

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Lorry as you is the best moderator on this Forum and one of , if not the best and nicest dancer on the scene, why dont you draw up some well mannered and thought out rules for tagging.

    I for one would be more than happy to follow your lead.

    As in a lot of things in the dance world, if we as Forumites set an example the dancing masses may well follow our lead.

    Lorry for Prime minister I say.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Never heard of this. And quite frankly, glad not to have come across it. Firstly, I wouldn't have understood what was going on . . . actually, that's secondly: firstly, its soooooo rude!!!


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    Re: Permission to steal?

    I know the people that enjoy tagging have a great deal of fun and it adds to their evening - but it isn't really for me, and I do get a little panicky when it is going on around me...

    I don't really want to do it, I want to enjoy the entire dance with the person that I am with, but often the very nature of tagging leaves you with what feels like very little choice.

    How do you refuse without seeming like a kill-joy?

    I have seen many unsuspecting guys have ladies taken from them, and in the case of the more inexperienced dancers, they can sometimes see it as a reflection on them - that somehow the stealer doesn't think they are good enough etc.

    I've had ladies get quite panicky when they don't understand it too, worrying that there was going to be 'trouble' when they were taken from a partner and not knowing how to get back to them.

    My personal feeling about tagging is that it probably feels better and works better in a 'main room' rather than a Blues room. A blues room is a place where people are striving to form a perfect connection between themselves and their partner and obviously the music - being tagged or having mass tagging going on around you, doesn't make for the best environment in which to achieve that IMHO.


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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Lorry for Prime minister I say.
    Has anyone ever told you, you go a 'leeetle' bit over the top sometimes Dave?
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    Re: Permission to steal?

    There is a lot of sense in what you are saying Sarah, it comes back to time, place and the people involved.

    A set of established rules would go a long way to clearing the muddy waters in which this aspect of dancing resides.

    Stone me I am being all sensible and nice here, still it probably wont last, must be coming down with something.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Has anyone ever told you, you go a 'leeetle' bit over the top sometimes Dave?
    Stop wasting time and get on mit the tagging rules or I will vote for another.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowWhite View Post
    I know the people that enjoy tagging have a great deal of fun and it adds to their evening - but it isn't really for me, and I do get a little panicky when it is going on around me...

    I don't really want to do it, I want to enjoy the entire dance with the person that I am with, but often the very nature of tagging leaves you with what feels like very little choice.

    How do you refuse without seeming like a kill-joy?
    very true - last time I was at Southport I got some very dirty looks from a team of wanna be taggers when I refused to be parted from the person I was dancing with - my arm was actually tugged on!?!?!



    that said at the right time/mood with right dancers it can be a lot of fun - CJ, Raphael, Blues Room, on a sunny Sunday springs to mind

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    Re: Permission to steal?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Now then I enjoy a bit of tagging, however I normally try to make eye contact with the lead and mouth " TAG" at him, whilst making a T sign with my hand. I did this twice at Southport and was greeted with a shaking of the head, indicating no Tag for this dance.

    It is only common manners really. Now if a mass Tag is going on then a bit of a free for all is generally the rule.

    My opinion only pips.

    DTS XXX XXX
    I was one of the people to be asked and my wishes respected by DTS as she was a new discovery and I did not want spoil the moment, but later DTS and I tagged with a lady who was up for it and had a wonderful time, so as said before on this thread Lory for Prime minister and a few rules would be good or common sence

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