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Thread: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

  1. #21
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    Why don't you ask the powers that run this board to put a sticky up or make a new category in Social to find a man to share with. Allowing at least forumites to book with someone they may vaguely know or who someone they know may know (cue extended descriptions gag).

    i.e.

    Storm. March 2010. (names are samples only)

    Maxine wants to go
    Fletch wants to go.
    dts reads the thread and offers to book with them.

    Beds can be moved into the lounge if you don't want to use the sofa.
    I love this idea simple but genius

  2. #22
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    Why don't you ask the powers that run this board to put a sticky up or make a new category in Social to find a man to share with.
    I think its a good idea too!

    A nice service for forumites
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
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  3. #23
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    I don't see why you consider it stirring.

    An economist should be able to show a price based mechanism is better than a rationing based mechanism here.

    The contortions necessary, because Ceroc, rightly or wrongly believe they must offer the same price, have overall costs, which if added up are unlikely to come close to the overall benefits.
    Stirring? Only because fairness and equality seem to be judged in a highly subjective manner.

    In the parallel world that I'm currently in the process of creating everything will be super-fluffy and nobody will feel discriminated against; ever!

  4. #24
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    In the parallel world that I'm currently in the process of creating everything will be super-fluffy and nobody will feel discriminated against; ever!
    OH yeah? thanks. As an only slightly fluffy individual I resent the discrimination to be brought in on behalf of you super-fluffy fascists.

    I hope the build up of static electricity kills the lot of you.

    super-fluffy bastards

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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Cool - so does anything else need to be done Lory or will you take care of it ?

    Phil

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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    Cool - so does anything else need to be done Lory or will you take care of it ?

    Phil
    We're working on it hun...

    We're talking behind the scenes about the set up, the practicalities and how it will work in general

    Bare with us!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Bare with us!
    Really? When's this happening ? I'm there

  8. #28
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Bare with us!
    Just had a cheeky little message to point out my little grammatical error



    I make this mistake EVERY TIME!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
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  9. #29
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    I am not grasping this can some kind person put this into words that an IDIOT, ie me, can understand.

    A sketch may help, preferably in crayon.

    As I see it, I am now booked with Maxine and Fletch, I don't know what the Bat will feel about this.

    DTS XXX XXX

  10. #30
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    I am not grasping this can some kind person put this into words that an IDIOT, ie me, can understand.

    A sketch may help, preferably in crayon.

    As I see it, I am now booked with Maxine and Fletch, I don't know what the Bat will feel about this.

    DTS XXX XXX
    she wont mind, i'm harmless

  11. #31
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    I am not grasping this can some kind person put this into words that an IDIOT, ie me, can understand.

    A sketch may help, preferably in crayon.

    As I see it, I am now booked with Maxine and Fletch, I don't know what the Bat will feel about this.

    DTS XXX XXX
    Looking forward to it DTS but no tagging while I'm trying to sleep.

    A small request for Fletch as we're all sharing not too much S'Funk in the chalet

  12. #32
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    Looking forward to it DTS but no tagging while I'm trying to sleep.

    A small request for Fletch as we're all sharing not too much S'Funk in the chalet
    Lamb to the slaughter comes to mind here girly trouts.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    to get the gender balance discount you DO need to share
    I think the suggestion is that you can always take your ticket and stay with other friends

  14. #34
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Depends how gender balancing is implemented. If it is 1:1 ratio I personally think it doesn't work. Having been to a few weekenders I have noticed that for the workshops there seem to be more men than women, mainly because women are out shopping or busy doing something else. Each to their own preferences I guess.

    The ratio balances out during the freestyle when everyone is out dancing.

    Personally I would like to see a ratio of 1:1.3 (100 male : 130 female). Mainly because many women can lead compared to the number of guys that can follow. That's my opinion, I am sure others will have a different view on this topic.

  15. #35
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    I am asking the question really are the numbers of tickets put on sale for the men at £29.99 the same as that the women?
    I dunno - but the £29 SWAS tickets for Blush in Feb 2010 are available for both sexes at the moment.
    Love dance, will travel

  16. #36
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    I dunno - but the £29 SWAS tickets for Blush in Feb 2010 are available for both sexes at the moment.
    Thank you David I have booked it
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

  17. #37
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Much as I hate economics, this is really a fairly simple case of supply and demand.

    Gender balancing was introduced because there were too many women and not enough men; the demand for leads vastly out-weighed the supply. From all accounts, this wasn't very satisfactory for anyone.

    This was addressed by gender balancing. I don't know exactly what formula is used, but I expect it would be some sort of ratio of men to women in booked tickets. This introduced a greater scarcity of supply of women's tickets compared to the demand. This has had a couple of consequences, including:
    • Women-only tickets selling out very early, meaning people have to plan well in advance for the weekenders.
    • Women booking and paying for a non-existent man, just to get a ticket. This skews the market by upsetting the planned gender balance. If all tickets sell out, then it might also prevent some men from being able to go at all.


    The possible solutions to a market disequilibrium are rather obvious. You either decrease demand or increase supply.

    To decrease demand, you increase price. If there was a premium of 25% on the prices for follows, this would both reduce supply and increase revenue. One would have to be a little clever to get around discrimination laws, but that's not insurmountable. The other major issue would be the reaction of the market (ie the average punter) to the price differential. Again, this can be managed in a number of ways.

    To increase supply (of leads) is trickier. Again, you could decrease the price for leads. Or offer other incentives that would increase the number of leads attending. This is less likely to succeed as there are simply fewer men dancing across the country than women.

    All of these solutions are quite a bit trickier to implement and to manage (both from a logistical and from a PR persepctive) than simple quotas. But they are alternatives.

  18. #38
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by sindbad View Post
    Personally I would like to see a ratio of 1:1.3 (100 male : 130 female). Mainly because many women can lead compared to the number of guys that can follow. That's my opinion, I am sure others will have a different view on this topic.
    It's much fairer selling tickets 1:1 ratio IMO - then you'd be able to have men following if they wanted and women leading without too much hassle over gender balance issues.

    I lead, but don't choose to at a freestyle so for me I'd be pretty p****d off if I went to an event and had to spend the night dancing with women and being restricted to my 'moves based' leading rather than getting to dance with lovely men.

    In workshops I've been to, it's always single males or couples places left at the end, so obviously ladies in my area aren't keen shoppers (?!). However at Splash in some of the classes I did, the ratio was not far off your 1:1.3. Shame for me as I'd have liked to have led in some of the classes, but felt it wasn't right when there were men over.

  19. #39
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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    ... However at Splash in some of the classes I did, the ratio was not far off your 1:1.3. Shame for me as I'd have liked to have led in some of the classes, but felt it wasn't right when there were men over.
    The effective mismatch can be much higher than seen in the classes, as lots of men will drop out, or (more likely) not join the class if the ratio is skewed.

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    Re: Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?

    This is al very well but dancing will never be gender balanced because there are more women in dancing than men. I was chatting recently to a member of Ceroc who told me that he had ben offered sex, violence, money and all sort of bribes for a ticket at weekends.

    When women book ghost men just so they can get to a weekend then try to sell tickets without accommodation, the gender balancing will be out.

    Traditionally women book early and men kind of leave it until the last minute. It is nearly the situation that men could leave booking put a request on the Forum and find a frantic woman to book with.

    I believe Ceroc are looking into this, however the general shortage of men in dancing will always be a problem. Whats the answer? I don't know, I am just thankfull that as a man it doesn't really impact me that much, I sympathize with women having problems booking weekends.

    DTS XXX XXX

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