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Thread: Crazy Licensing Laws

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    Crazy Licensing Laws

    OK, I'm up in Edinburgh for a couple of days and had an interesting discussion with my brother-in-law who holds the licensee status at one of branches of a Scottish supermarket chain. He tells me that should I go into his supermarket with my 16 year old son he would not sell me alcohol. This is down to guidelines he has from the licensing authorities that you should not sell to anyone that could be buying for handing to a minor. Therefore, since he knows my son is under 18, he'd not let me buy alcohol even if I said it was for home consumption later on.

    Nanny state or what?

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Scottish licencing laws got really silly in their last incarnation. My parents run a coffee shop - 90% of the time customers are tourists, so they have a line in gifts, some business branded bottled beer and some select whiskies. The recent law change sees them have to train members of staff in "how to sell alcohol", they already know of course, don't sell alcohol to minors is easy enough after all. There was an extra large expense that saw them have to attend a general course on alchol sales that covered people running huge nightclubs. Then an exam to pass. Then exams for select members of seasonal staff who may not last more than 3 months. Then a larger fee for the actual alcohol sales licence. Gah. A nonsense.

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    I don't know if there is any difference between English and Scottish licensing law, in England it appears this sort of nonsense has been going on for ages. Apologies for all the links to the Dailymail but they do seem to lap up this type of story.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-children.html

    What ever next? If any parent approves of their child becoming intoxicated they could just as well buy alcohol without their child present and then let them have it when they get home. Eventually parents will get wise and ask their teenagers to make themselves scarce before they get to the checkout.

    This guy did exactly what I would have done in the same situation. When they refused to serve him because his child was with him he walked out...................and left them to put all his shopping back on the shelves after he had gone

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-son-17.html

    The next story borders on unbelievable. A woman of 47 couldn't prove her age so they refused sale of alcohol. Her daughter who was 22 and was with her at the time produced her driving licence and wanted to buy the alcohol on her mothers behalf. They refused sale to the daughter on the basis that she was buying it to give to her mother. DOH!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-prove-18.html

    There are many similar stories out there.

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Its great that drinking laws are being taken more seriously but it does sound like a rather black and white approach to the rules. It is not strange that people shop with their children in tow and it is perfectly legal for parents to supply alcohol to their children in the home (as long as they are older than 5 in Scotland). On the few occasions in the past where i have seen adults buy alcohol for kids (having not done it myself) its never for their own kids and the kids wait outside. If this happens to me in a supermaket, rest assured i will say 'no problem', buy everything else, go back in and simply go to another cashier without the "suspect" underage person Its only slightly inconvenient after all and may well cut down on underage drinking.

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    I was at the checkout of Waitrose the other day and the checkout girl rang her buzzer to call for help. When i asked her what the problem was, she told me that she was only 17 and therefore not allowed to 'handle' the wine I was buying and needed an assistant to serve me.

    I'm wondering how many bottles of wine you need to handle, before your over the limit
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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Its great that drinking laws are being taken more seriously but it does sound like a rather black and white approach to the rules.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    On the few occasions in the past where i have seen adults buy alcohol for kids (having not done it myself) its never for their own kids and the kids wait outside.
    I've also seen people who were clearly buying on behalf of the gaggle of underage delinquents waiting outside. Clearly these restrictions are extremely easy to circumvent. So, what will the ban on parents with children-in-tow buying alcohol achieve? In my opinion absolutely nothing, except perhaps to inconvenience and demonise people who probably do not intend to allow their children to drink to excess. In any case, parents are free to let their children have some of the newly purchased alcohol when they get home. Whether the children were present or not when the sale was made is completely irrelevant! As the Dreadful one correctly pointed out, responsible home drinking by children over 5 is completely lawful (although there have been proposals to criminalise it).

    One might wonder what the role of the supermarkets is in all of this
    1. To act as an enforcement arm of the state, for a set of draconian restrictions and policies that probably won't actually achieve much
    2. To give the impression of responsible trading, while being fully aware that their policies of extreme-low-pricing on alcohol and round-the-clock sales are a major contributer to the alcohol related problems that the UK currently faces

    I'm a non-drinker so these restrictions don't affect me. However, as I'm not blind to the social cost of alcoholism it would be nice to see new initiatives that might actually make a difference.

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I was at the checkout of Waitrose the other day and the checkout girl rang her buzzer to call for help. When i asked her what the problem was, she told me that she was only 17 and therefore not allowed to 'handle' the wine I was buying and needed an assistant to serve me.

    I'm wondering how many bottles of wine you need to handle, before your over the limit
    When you are a minor any number greater than zero. Being under 18 the assistant did not have the legal capability to make the sale.

    What should the government do to improve the health of the nation and allow sensible drinking? Should it do anything? We can see the damage misuse causes but where are the appropriate frontiers of state control? Just so long as they do not increase prices as a control. As a society we need to educate the young into the responsible use of alcohol as with anything else.

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I was at the checkout of Waitrose the other day and the checkout girl rang her buzzer to call for help. When i asked her what the problem was, she told me that she was only 17 and therefore not allowed to 'handle' the wine I was buying and needed an assistant to serve me.
    I think this has been happening for many years though - some of the other stuff in this thread is presumably a lot more recent.
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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Secreto View Post
    OK, I'm up in Edinburgh for a couple of days
    You gone now ? Was it nice ?

    I just realised - i have bought alcohol for kids but only because i was one of the oldest looking ones out of our group when i was about 15

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    There is also the added strangeness of the co-op, where you have to be over 25 to buy alcohol.

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by pmjd View Post
    There is also the added strangeness of the co-op, where you have to be over 25 to buy alcohol.
    not in any co-op i've been in to you don't !

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    Re: Crazy Licensing Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I was at the checkout of Waitrose the other day and the checkout girl rang her buzzer to call for help. When i asked her what the problem was, she told me that she was only 17 and therefore not allowed to 'handle' the wine I was buying and needed an assistant to serve me.

    I'm wondering how many bottles of wine you need to handle, before your over the limit
    when i started reading this i thought you were going to say they asked you for id to make sure you were over 18

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