View Poll Results: Are you going to BritRock on 31 October 2009?

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  • Yes - I'm going and competing

    5 18.52%
  • Yes - going but not competing

    4 14.81%
  • Not this time

    15 55.56%
  • Not sure yet...

    3 11.11%
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Thread: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

  1. #21
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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.
    You're welcome
    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I am not sure one of your judges may approve though....
    He may find it harder to teach MJers. However, I was recently told by a WCS teacher that something like 90% of his students had come over from MJ - he didn't say how many were still doing MJ.

    As someone who has learnt most partner dances over the years I used to find it surprising that people thought of themselves as being a Jiver/Cerocer or a Westie or Lindy Hopper. To me it was a bit like saying you're a Waltzer, Foxtrotter or a Quickstepper. However, I've learnt from observation that the huge amount of freestyle that we do in MJ means that the timing gets embedded in muscle memory and becomes a "bad habit" when learning other dances.

    Hopefully the inclusion of a WCS category at Britrock will prove that it's possible for MJ dancers to dance WCS as well.

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I am not sure one of your judges may approve though....
    Rob, I stand by that original statement. Being a professional WCS instructor, teaching 4/5 WCS classes a week for the last year you'd think I have gained a little bit of an insight by now...... Though you obviously don't?

    I am at BritRock soley as a judge for this category. This has been driven by the grass roots WCS community in the area, they want it to happen. Do you have a problem with that Rob?
    Last edited by mikeyr; 21st-October-2009 at 06:22 PM.

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    Rob, I stand by that original statement. Being a professional WCS instructor, teaching 4/5 WCS classes a week for the last year you'd think I have gained a little bit of an insight by now...... Though you obviously don't?

    I am at BritRock soley as a judge for this category. This has been driven by the grass roots WCS community in the area, they want it to happen. Do you have a problem with that Rob?
    Of course I don't have a problem. Bravo to you for continuing to try to grow the scene so actively especially given the recent/imminent closures of weekly class nights at Wellingborough and Bristol.

    I just have a long memory and I do enjoy seeing people's position on things change. If you stand by your original statement why did you choose to teach and promote WCS for predominantly jive organisations/at predominantly jive events since making that statement?

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I just have a long memory and I do enjoy seeing people's position on things change. If you stand by your original statement why did you choose to teach and promote WCS for predominantly jive organisations/at predominantly jive events since making that statement?

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I am not sure one of your judges may approve though....


    LOL

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    And down the road there is the event that is the topic of this thread. It's called Britrock and there will be the best dancers in the UK with a smattering of foreign visitors. Can we keep this thread on-topic, please
    Should this not read the best MJers in the UK ???

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    Should this not read the best MJers in the UK ???
    OK, I'll give you that one

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Of course I don't have a problem. Bravo to you for continuing to try to grow the scene so actively especially given the recent/imminent closures of weekly class nights at Wellingborough and Bristol.

    I just have a long memory and I do enjoy seeing people's position on things change. If you stand by your original statement why did you choose to teach and promote WCS for predominantly jive organisations/at predominantly jive events since making that statement?

    It is sad to hear of the demise of any WCS class but it is a tough market. But my position has'nt changed!

    Rob, Which "predominantly jive organisations/at predominantly jive events" Would they be? Unlike other WCS outfits, I dont have to have a Jive organisation underwriting my classes

    I promote & teach WCS as a fun social partner dance that can be enjoyed by everyone and my classes are open to all, it would be remiss of me as an instructor(of anything) not to take account of my students previous dance history.

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Mj'ers are harder to teach WCS too than non-dancers. Not in all cases but a good percentage. However, most WCS'ers do come from a Jive background and I think most WCS teacher would agree that without MJ there would not be a WCS scene at all in this country. Infact I think a very high percentage of WCS teachers come from a jive background themselves.

    I would agree with whoever said 90% odd (think it was Andy) come from MJ. In our classes it would prob be a higher figure. Most if not all of them still do MJ as there is not enough class nights a week at the moment in the area to cater for those who want more than 1 night a week dancing, so they have to either keep up with MJ as well or just stick with 1 night a week.

    Our area down here has gone from having pretty much no WCS classes or events to having a weekly class (soon to be 2), Monthly workshops and freestyles and a monthly Deca Dance workshop and freestyle and now Britrock are doing a WCS catagory in the comps. Hopefully it will not be long before the South is a hotbed of WCS activity.

    Most of the dancers from our classes that are entering the WCS event (around 9 I think from last asking) are also doing a Jive cat from Open to DWAS. I also think a good 15 or so from our class will attend to watch.

    Well done to Sarah, Andy, Mike and James Geary for organising the cat.

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Well done to Sarah, Andy, Mike and James Geary for organising the cat.
    I agree, but until they have people judging that section who have the same credibility as the Jive judges it will be like Schrodingers cat - both dead and alive at the same time...

    There's not a single 'serious' WCS dancer I know that believes Mikeyr has any credibility at all - as an example, when he entered the Ceroc showcase category this year at the Ceroc champs I asked Jason Colacino what he thought of his WCS and Jason said 'he didn't even know that he was dancing WCS'

    And now he's judging it!

    C'mon Andy, sort it out...

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    There's not a single 'serious' WCS dancer I know that believes Mikeyr has any credibility at all - as an example, when he entered the Ceroc showcase category this year at the Ceroc champs I asked Jason Colacino what he thought of his WCS and Jason said 'he didn't even know that he was dancing WCS'

    And now he's judging it!
    I can't think of a reason why anyone would be dancing WCS in the CEROC SHOWCASE category - surely they would be dancing MJ when compteting in that category. Otherwise it would be like entering a tango competition and dancing foxtrot. Hardly a surprise then that when you asked Jason to observe him in the CEROC SHOWCASE MJ comptetition he wouldn't be dancing WCS.

    His skill (or lack of it) in dancing WCS doesn't seem to have stopped him being placed reasonably highly in UK and US WCS competitions (both judged by US pro judges). He has also been trained by and had his teaching endorsed by Mario Robau and Samatha Buckwalter, both of whom appear to have some credability in the US WCS world.

    So if he is not a proficient WCS dancer he seems to be fooling quite a lot of people who you may think might know what they are talking about.

    As for his abilities to judge others - not sure where anybody gains the credability to do this other than through being a high placed competitior themselves. Would you have him as a judge at a professional competition where coveted points where hotly fought for? Perhaps not. But he certainly appears proficient for what is a "demonstration event" at a MJ competition.

    Ok you may be p$ssed off that the lazy tyke has taken your website blurb, used the framework and left some distinct phrases unchanged but that is no reason to try and trash the guy entirely based on an US pros opinion of hiw WCS while he was dancing MJ. Have a go at him for anything he has done wrong but try and keep it to that.

  12. #32
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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    I can't think of a reason why anyone would be dancing WCS in the CEROC SHOWCASE category - surely they would be dancing MJ when compteting in that category. Otherwise it would be like entering a tango competition and dancing foxtrot. Hardly a surprise then that when you asked Jason to observe him in the CEROC SHOWCASE MJ comptetition he wouldn't be dancing WCS.

    .
    Actually in the Ceroc Champs showcase category you can dance any style of dance and in fact in recent years a Lindy couple won that category and also Cat and Amir in another year were placed 2nd dancing Tango - and Cat and Paul have also competed in that category dancing pure WCS.

    In the showcase in question he was dancing with Naomi (I think) and she was dancing brilliant WCS...

    So there.

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Actually in the Ceroc Champs showcase category you can dance any style of dance and in fact in recent years a Lindy couple won that category and also Cat and Amir in another year were placed 2nd dancing Tango - and Cat and Paul have also competed in that category dancing pure WCS.

    In the showcase in question he was dancing with Naomi (I think) and she was dancing brilliant WCS...

    So there.
    The same routine they placed well with in The States being judged by total WCS dancers. I don't know how they managed that if they were'nt dancing WCS Maybe, Just maybe you don't have a clue Rocky .

    The judges of this cat are AFAIK (andy can confirm) Simon, Nicole, David B, Phil Webb and Mikeyr. I can't talk of David B and Phil but Simon and Nicole both dance WCS (Nicole is a great WCS dancer) and I can't think of a better person in the UK to judge WCS than Mike, esp at the novice level this comp is at.

    If you want to talk judges credability, lets talk about the ceroc champs. Who judges them? I seem to recall yourself judging the showcases a few years back? Have you ever done a showcase? what makes you a credible judge? I would like an answer to that Rocky. Actually make the question "What makes you a more credible judge than Mike?"

    The WCS cat at Britrock has been knocked together at dancers request. It will not be a huge cat. Infact It's being limited to 10 couples and will be a novice J&J. Hardly going to attract pro dancers or even the ones that compeate at a higher level than that. However, what it will do is give novice dancers a chance to see what a comp is all about and to have fun at the same time. Who knows, Some of them might get a taste of it and do the UK WCS Champs, compeate in The States or even go for the most credible comp of all The Ceroc Champs

  14. #34
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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    The same routine they placed well with in The States being judged by total WCS dancers. I don't know how they managed that if they were'nt dancing WCS Maybe, Just maybe you don't have a clue Rocky .
    Err... it was Jason Colacino who made the comment and I was repeating it, and presumably Jason who was recoginized by many as one of the best WCS dancers of all time, did know what he's talking about..? Do try to read my posts before commenting, there's a good fellow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    The judges of this cat are AFAIK (andy can confirm) Simon, Nicole, David B, Phil Webb and Mikeyr. I can't talk of David B and Phil but Simon and Nicole both dance WCS (Nicole is a great WCS dancer) and I can't think of a better person in the UK to judge WCS than Mike, esp at the novice level this comp is at.
    Don't be ridicolous, there are many more people in the UK more qualified than Mike of a judging a WCS comp, or are you suggesting that as a he's not very good that he's better off judging a novice competition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    "What makes you a more credible judge than Mike?"
    Well, I'm obviously much nicer than he is and don't wear vest tops with hairy shoulders - and as regards your other question, yes I have performed and choreographed showcases (it was just before your time that's all...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    The WCS cat at Britrock has been knocked together at dancers request. It will not be a huge cat. Infact It's being limited to 10 couples and will be a novice J&J.
    Clearly it's been 'knocked together' and make your mind up, is it going to be HUGE or just limited to 10 couples? - 'cos it can't be both. By the way, are you entering?

  15. #35
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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    .....The judges of this cat are AFAIK (andy can confirm) Simon, Nicole, David B, Phil Webb and Mikeyr. I can't talk of David B and Phil but Simon and Nicole both dance WCS (Nicole is a great WCS dancer)..........
    sorry Lee
    You are obviously too new to the dancing scene to know who David Barker is along with his wife Lily they are by far the best couple in the UK to judge a WCS comp. They must be the most experienced WCS couple we have in the UK. Unfortunately for BritRock Lily will be away that weekend.

    Simon, Nicole & Phil have excellent street cred and are amazing dancers and between them have won many well deserved competitions and THAT makes them good judges, their WCS knowledge is not that important. (What makes Bruno & Craig Ballroom judges - they are choreographers)

    Love him or hate him (I love him) Mikeyr has been dancing WCS on both sides of the pond for quite a while now attending and competing in many WCS competitions plus with his WCS teaching ability he will make more than a suitable WCS judge.

    And what's all the fuss about - it is a fun category, not to be taken too seriously I even think it is DWAS ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    After much discussion. Some of it very distracting from the main business of a National Modern Jive competition we've finally decided to run a DWAS WCS in the finals.
    Last edited by Minnie M; 22nd-October-2009 at 08:00 PM.


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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Without getting into the mudslinging (itself pretty predictable given the emnity between Rocky and mikeyr) I do wonder how much credibility of the judges matters for people when they are choosing to enter a comp. It only seems to matter to people who don't do as well as they expect to do at a comp. I'd think that prize money and (possibly) WSDC points would be far more of a determiner for people in terms of entering a UK WCS comp than the perceived credibility of any of the judges.

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post


    Well, I'm obviously much nicer than he is and don't wear vest tops with hairy shoulders - and as regards your other question, yes I have performed and choreographed showcases (it was just before your time that's all...)
    You must be older than I thought


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Clearly it's been 'knocked together' and make your mind up, is it going to be HUGE or just limited to 10 couples? - 'cos it can't be both. By the way, are you entering?
    Read my posts propperly, theres a good fellow

    Am I entering? I have filled in the application but I might not be able to do it as not only am I suffering a slipped disc at the moment, I think I have broken my hand. Need to get it check out tomorrow. If all's alright by then, then I can't see why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    sorry Lee
    You are obviously too new to the dancing scene to know who David Barker is along with his wife Lily they are by far the best couple in the UK to judge a WCS comp. They must be the most experienced WCS couple we have in the UK. Unfortunately for BritRock Lily will be away that weekend.
    I know who David and Lilly are, met them a few times etc and aware that the dance WCS but I was not sure to what level or their WCS background. Same with Phil. Thats why I couldn't comment on them

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    And what's all the fuss about - it is a fun category, not to be taken too seriously I even think it is DWAS ???
    Absoflippinlutly.

    It is giving the chance for many people to do their first WCS comp.

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Without getting into the mudslinging (itself pretty predictable given the emnity between Rocky and mikeyr)
    There's no emnity on my part! Really!

    With regard to the alledged plageurism. If its that big a deal Rocky, Sue Me!

    With regard to my WCS competition results, they are in black & white and speak for themselves and they are current too!

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    Re: BritRock Brighton Sat 31 Oct

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    There's not a single 'serious' WCS dancer I know that believes Mikeyr has any credibility at all

    -snip-

    And now he's judging it!

    C'mon Andy, sort it out...
    I don't know Mike Rosa at all. I've spoken with Mike on one occasion after he'd agreed to judge. Mike Rosa was included in the judging panel at the suggestion of James Geary. I have a great deal of respect for James and so do many others.

    One of the things we try to do when selecting judging panels is to have a right good mix of judges. We don't want a cosy group of judges who are all chums and think alike. We need a difference of viewpoint on the panel to give competitors a fairer chance of there being someone who appreciates what they are doing.

    I can tell you that I'm often surprised by the diversity of scoring between judges watching the same competitors. You could almost have believed that they were watching different dancers.

    From memory I can only remember one occasion when all judges agreed on the champion. Often there will be one judge who thinks that someone should have won who the other judges don't think should have been in the medals at all! It's called democracy. And that is one of the reasons why we have a judging panel rather than a single judge.

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    Competition Dancing

    A few years ago I wrote some notes on competition dancing. If you are competing it might be useful for you to read them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor in 2006
    Competition Dancing

    Some of you will be wanting to compete at Britrock. There's the Dance With a Stranger competition which everyone is encouraged to enter and then there's the more serious categories which will require more preparation and rehearsal. Here's some tips if you're competing.

    Smile.
    Keep Smiling...
    Make sure the judges can see you at all times and make sure they can see your feet otherwise they will miss out on your brilliant footwork.

    Guys, make sure you do your drops and lifts facing the judges so you present your partner to the best advantage. There's nothing worse than a drop done with your back to the judges. Very few of us have the bottoms to impress the judges...
    Listen to the music and dance in the style of the music, Latin, swing, pop, hip-hop, etc. Mark high points, low points, breaks etc in the music.

    Have a few dress rehearsals. Dance over and over again in your competition outfits to make sure you don't get any nasty surprises (Andy once did a cabaret with a partner who'd just bought a brilliant dress with tassels - the tassels got tangled with the buttons on his double-breasted DJ and they got stuck chest-to-chest like Velcro!!!). It is very common for a heel to get caught in the hem of a dress or skirt. Make sure this will not happen to you. Also, it has been known for ladies to pop out of their top in competitions There is a sneaking suspicion among a part of the crowd that this could be deliberate to get the judges attention! But it is probably an accident which will take your mind off your dancing and cause huge embarrassment - lasting years if photos are taken...

    Do your best moves over and over again rather than dipping into your B-list moves to add variety. The judges are not watching you the whole time so they probably won't notice any repetition. They will notice less than brilliant moves and mark you based on them rather than your best moves.

    Oh, and keep smiling, smiling, smiling.
    Read the rules. It is important that you know the rules and it would be a great shame to be disqualified for breaking a rule when you didn't even know about it. The rules and judging method also give a very clear indication of what is expected of competitors in terms of their performance.

    The final bit of advice is to enter. If you can't find a partner you should enter the Dance With a Stranger. You will get a great deal more enjoyment from the day if you're actually in the competition. No matter how fleeting your time before finding you're not through to the next round
    One last thing;

    SMILE!

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