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Thread: Ceroc predation

  1. #81
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Hello Steve. This is just a general enquiry to satisfy my curiosity. Having read Vals post again it would seem that one of the things that swayed you towards Ceroc and away from GJ was that Ceroc would do the promotional activities that GJ had promised but not delivered and that the promotional activities would increase footfall at your venue.

    My question is Why is the volume of footfall at a particular event better for a venue? If you were charging a flat fee then it would not matter if one organiser was dying on his feet and another was rammed to the rafters as long as you got your fee then all things would be equal. Is it as simple as more footfall = more business at the bar = better profit for the venue.
    This is often the case with any licensed venue. They take more money from behind the bar than they do from venue rental which is often minimal. The venues I run have given an average spend per person of £3 which might not seem much but there is a huge difference between 10 dancers and £150.

    The other issue is what dancers drink. It is a common misconception that venues dont like dancers due to the fact they spend less.

    Avergage drinkers on a night out would spend around £15 dancers £3.

    It all comes down to what dancers drink. The profit margin on a pint of coke is huge. What do they cost on average £2.40? how much does it cost the bar in syrup? 20p at a guess? No tax on it either.

    The profit margins are nowhere near as big with beer etc due to tax etc etc etc.

  2. #82
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    General issue - I know nothing about Liberty Ballroom.

    Some venues have contracts with drink suppliers and have to meet sales targets or face big price rises. This can lead to abuses like air-con off to both save money and to improve drink sales due to heat, and water prices high.
    Neither do I, but I do find the reviews section of this forum usefully arranged.

    http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=431

  3. #83
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Neither do I, but I do find the reviews section of this forum usefully arranged.

    http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=431
    Im not sure about other areas, but in in East Sussex, the licensing laws states that NO consumption of any beverages can be consumed in a license premises that are not purchased in that premises. Including Water !!!!

    This means that a venue can lose it's license. I know of one venue this way that was given a written warning (which I have seen with my own peepers).

    Maybe that was the case there. We are forever telling people that they shouldn't bring their own drinks and the reasons why.

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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Hold this thread has changed from, my mate is bigger than your mate, to mr sensible in the time it takes to scrub the skid marks from my still damp pants. What's all that about then?

    DTS XXX XXX

  5. #85
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    I would like to wish Val and Dave the best of luck with their new night.

    Two really great people, who are always working hard and deserve a chance
    to make a really successful night.

    Bill

  6. #86
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    What do you want to know... was the airhorn blown of it's own accord or was it blown without consent...

    Airhorn abuse, now could that be a legal battle?

    Maybe a court case pending?

    Airhorns of the world unite - do not suffer in silence!
    As chairman of the National Airhorn Protection society...........Etc, Etc, Etc

  7. #87
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Hello Steve. This is just a general enquiry to satisfy my curiosity. Having read Vals post again it would seem that one of the things that swayed you towards Ceroc and away from GJ was that Ceroc would do the promotional activities that GJ had promised but not delivered and that the promotional activities would increase footfall at your venue.

    My question is Why is the volume of footfall at a particular event better for a venue? If you were charging a flat fee then it would not matter if one organiser was dying on his feet and another was rammed to the rafters as long as you got your fee then all things would be equal. Is it as simple as more footfall = more business at the bar = better profit for the venue.
    I know Steve didn't want to get involved in discussions on the Forum so made one statement and was leaving it at that.

    As regards your enquiry, well I think it's been answered by other people relating to bar takings - but I think the issue is more fundemental than that....

    Having met Steve and Lindsey a number of times now what comes out of our meetings is how proud they are of The Liberty. It's theirs... it's their baby.. and they have worked very hard to make it a successful business and to also make it part of the community in Newbury. They have a passion for this venue and as such have been really disappointed by how, in their eyes, it's been neglected. In its hay day they had 150 + people on regular class nights and now it's less than half that with the extra specialist night replacing one of the jive nights, attracting less than 20 people. This saddens them and along with the unfulfilled promises it's made them consider the future of the venue very carefully.

    So, it's not about the money or the bar takings - it really is simply about filling the venue with people to restore The Liberty to what it used to be. And in us they see two people starting their own franchise who are absolutely committed to making that happen.

  8. #88
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    I can't wait for Val and Dave to get themselves up and running with their own franchise. And at a venue that's not a village hall.

    Can I fit that much dancing into the week?

    When's it all kick off?

  9. #89
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Can I make an observation having worked with many venue's and in many Genres of music over 30 years. I did also run a venue for a while.

    Any good night at a venue gets people looking at what else is going on at that venue. So a good disco on a Friday for us would sell tickets for the band night on a Friday.

    I wish we had been able to have Jive nights with a good turnover of new people constantly coming through the doors.

    If we had a flat couple of weeks people would comment on that and say its not as good. We had a capacity of 350 so any less than 150 looked like a funeral. To stop that happening we always looked for the enthusistic events organisors who put in effort constantly and did promo.

    Also the bar taking were the profit of the venue. Maintaining a quality venue is VERY expensive.

    ChrisU

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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    So, it's not about the money or the bar takings - it really is simply about filling the venue with people to restore The Liberty to what it used to be. And in us they see two people starting their own franchise who are absolutely committed to making that happen.
    I can see how a large hall with a relatively small number of people in it can feel sad and unloved. This must be very hard if such a ballroom is your pride, joy and livelyhood even if you were getting the asked for hire fee. A place that is well attended has an energy and a life about it. With a small number of people in it it would feel unloved and in decay.

    I would like to thank Steve for the efforts he is making at refurbishing the hall (I have only been there once). These old ballrooms must be very expensive to refurbish especially as some of them have listed building status and it is not always simply a case of replacing things with new and cheap items. As some places are being carpeted over because health and safety has decreed that wooden ballroom floors can be too slippy to be safe to walk on then places to dance look like they may become an endangered part of our heritage. Ballrooms need dancers to keep them alive.

    Steve did give GJ a chance to promote the venue and these efforts were either not made or were not effective.

  11. #91
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    It sounds like a great venue to be honest - I'll need to get to it at some point

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    Re: Ceroc predation

    I have received a very generous offer of free admission to a freestyle last night and to a very tempting set of workshops today. Allegedly these events coincided and coincide with those of a new organisation set up by ex-Ceroc teachers.

    If I had to guess the pubs in that town last night were full of people out of their mind on alcohol who could be dancing instead. There is more than enough room for both.

    The Ceroc franchise concerned are still not found on first page of a Google search for "Dance classes townname" despite this being easily remedied, practically cost free, by following Franck's example, IMO Ceroc should be strengthening themselves by more professional marketing rather than weakening themselves by pathetic bullying.

  13. #93
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I have received a very generous offer of free admission to a freestyle last night and to a very tempting set of workshops today. Allegedly these events coincided and coincide with those of a new organisation set up by ex-Ceroc teachers.
    It did seem like another 'Hey, give me my customers back' move. Dancesynergy announced their freestyle and workshops a while back. Then last week, Ceroc decide to announce a free freestyle (this in itself wouldn't have been so obvious) and a day of free workshops today! This is something I've never heard Ceroc do before (correct me if I'm wrong). Personally, if I was interested in going to a local set of MJ workshops. They would have been the Ceroc ones anyway, Emma is a fab teacher and the workshop descriptions looked good. I don't think there was any need for Ceroc to put them on just to kick Dancesynergy's arse.
    The argument, against Ceroc wanting world domination in MJ, is weakened even further by this action IMO

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    Re: Ceroc predation

    I notice from Ceroc Fusion site that they are starting a Monday class at Bury St Edmunds Corn Exchange on 26th of Oct.They havent done the dirty on the independant that ran it,but it hasnt taken them long to jump in and take it on.Good venue,large floor,stage,bar,decent seating areas down both sides of the dance floor, has good potential.It will be interesting to see if they get the numbers to cover the cost.

  15. #95
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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    When has relevance ever been a requirement of posting on this Forum. I believe Mike shops in John Lewis and Harrods, don't you know. I spent a lot of time and money traveling to Blackpool and the experience was sullied by the actions of GJ. This is not a personal attack against any one person but an observation of the loutish, my opinion only, behaviour of members of a dance co at a public event.

    DTS XXX XXX
    Dave. What have GJ done? we knew people took offence at the horn things they had but we consiquently stopped those and banned all air horns as of last year.

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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Dave. What have GJ done? we knew people took offence at the horn things they had but we consiquently stopped those and banned all air horns as of last year.
    Mate read thro the whole thread, I have been plain about what GJ did to annoy me.

    Now this thread is done as far as I was aware, me and Jive-vee kicked this one to death and I have no reason to start again with it.

    DTS XXX XX

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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Mate read thro the whole thread, I have been plain about what GJ did to annoy me.

    Now this thread is done as far as I was aware, me and Jive-vee kicked this one to death and I have no reason to start again with it.

    DTS XXX XX
    I was affraid you would say that................. Here goes.

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    Re: Ceroc predation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    I prefer the sexual favours twist on the conspiracy. That Rocky offered his body to Steve..........
    Well, there would have been no point in offering his brain...

    ba-dum TISH!

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