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Thread: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    At last I'm going to be in a position to see at first hand what happens when a small start-up club tries to take on a large established Ceroc club.

    The new club started last week, with lots of Facebook activity ... and pulled in about 40 dancers. Not an auspicious start ... so over the last week there has been a targeted Facebook campaign, offer free tickets. I've been told that the Ceroc club this week is noticeably quieter ... but it seems to only be women who have defected.

    So ... we await the next instalment of this battle. How long will the new club continue with free tickets or is it only one tactic in a comprehensive marketing campaign. I'm not commenting on the ethics, I'm just really curious to see if Facebook can make or break a club. On the face of it, the game in the longer term belongs to Ceroc ... they are a well established club, better venue and massively better instructors and DJ ... but will the punters want something new .. especially as the new club is being marketed as 'advanced jive' .... whatever that means

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    At last I'm going to be in a position to see at first hand what happens when a small start-up club tries to take on a large established Ceroc club.
    Where is the club, up north?

    Also, is the club running on the same night and located close to the other club?

    I'm just really curious to see if Facebook can make or break a club.
    At the end of the day, I doubt very much if Facebook will have 'ANYTHING' to do with if a club becomes/remains a success or not!

    But will look forward to your updates!
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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    At last I'm going to be in a position to see at first hand what happens when a small start-up club tries to take on a large established Ceroc club.

    The new club started last week, with lots of Facebook activity ... and pulled in about 40 dancers. Not an auspicious start ... so over the last week there has been a targeted Facebook campaign, offer free tickets. I've been told that the Ceroc club this week is noticeably quieter ... but it seems to only be women who have defected.

    So ... we await the next instalment of this battle. How long will the new club continue with free tickets or is it only one tactic in a comprehensive marketing campaign. I'm not commenting on the ethics, I'm just really curious to see if Facebook can make or break a club. On the face of it, the game in the longer term belongs to Ceroc ... they are a well established club, better venue and massively better instructors and DJ ... but will the punters want something new .. especially as the new club is being marketed as 'advanced jive' .... whatever that means

    Why the sour grapes ?

    I would have put you at supporting the under dog ie The new start up venture. Never had you as a ceroceeee

    Seems to me you think ceroc are better/superior in every way and dont like the idea this new start up is taking up 'their' punters.??

    If the new club wants to be free for 3 months so what ? According to you the punters will soon realise what their missing at ceroc

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    . On the face of it, the game in the longer term belongs to Ceroc ... ....... better venue ........:
    Having watch various clubs competed for business in my area ( Bristol and Bath ) I would say the venue is the key to success

    The most successful organisation in my area has, with out doubt, the best venue, yes, the teachers and the DJ are both excellent , as is the marketing but the key to success is the venue, which has plenty of dance and sitting space, is well located, with free on site parking

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post

    At the end of the day, I doubt very much if Facebook will have 'ANYTHING' to do with if a club becomes/remains a success or not!

    But will look forward to your updates!

    When we started wcs in Eastbourne, the only advertising we done was an event listing on facebook. We had 33 dancers on our opening night which for a wcs club is not too bad.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    When we started wcs in Eastbourne, the only advertising we done was an event listing on facebook. We had 33 dancers on our opening night which for a wcs club is not too bad.
    I agree Facebook is a great tool for the initial marketing but if one doesn't deliver a good product week in week out, then facebook wont help.
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    The social media is great for spreading messages, good or bad, true or false, a good servant,a bad master.

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    Registered User emmylou25's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    We have an independent near us who competes against ceroc, and recently has been trying to get the 'advanced' dancers to move over by offering 'advanced jive' and alternative dance styles in workshops etc which ceroc can't/won't offer.

    They do a lot more than ceroc in the way of direct marketing: email newsletters & a facebook group which they do mail outs from, and actually several people have stated that they find them a little too aggressive in their sales patter.

    Although they've this year opened more venues/classes, i don't think it's hit ceroc in the area that much (there's probably more of an issue with ceroc opening too many venues which means people don't have to travel to their old venues they just visit their nearest new one instead). There's more of an issue with freestyles being put on the same dates so potentially splitting the area's dancers. I've only been to 1 of their freestyles which I didn't enjoy, mostly because the numbers weren't high enough to get a good variety of people there. Whereas ceroc freestyles have more people, a better level of dancers attending and people more keen to actually get up and dance/mix.

    IMO the advanced ceroc dancers ause the independent venue to get their fix of WCS (new offering) and different style of teaching (at a supposedly higher level) than they would at ceroc. But, they still continue to come to the really great ceroc venue, and to the freestyles.

    I have to say, facebook wise, I'm already sick of the number of messages I get from various groups about every single class night they set up as i usually join the groups to hear about freestyles rather than normal class nights.

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    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    The social media is great for spreading messages, good or bad, true or false, a good servant,a bad master.
    Facebook to a good degree and twitter even more so!!! [or so I gather!]

    Incidentally, I was hearing a rumour about combining Facebook, Twitter and Youtube into one site;
    and calling it

    ....

    wait for it

    ...

    YouTwitFace.com!!!




    Or is that an old one!??

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    actually several people have stated that they find them a little too aggressive in their sales patter.

    I have to say, facebook wise, I'm already sick of the number of messages I get from various groups about every single class night they set up as i usually join the groups to hear about freestyles rather than normal class nights.
    I believe everyone has a level of pushiness they'll tolerate (mines low ) and after they've reached that level, tend to just delete the messages before actually reading them or leave the group completely.
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    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    For me, it depends.

    Sometimes they'll be a guess teacher / celebration night / specialist workshop / whatever happening that I might be interested in, which i'd otherwise miss out on.

    IF, however, I continue to get a emails about a regular class night, same time every week, - then of course I get into the habit of thinking I know what is contained in the email & I'll delete it without reading.

    I think for a new club just opening, spamming their regular class nights is fair enough.

    Often from the subject line alone you can quickly decide if you want to read further & can delete straight away anyway, so it doesn't really bother me too much.

    Plus as well i'm just nosey and like to know what's going on

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I believe everyone has a level of pushiness they'll tolerate (mines low ) and after they've reached that level, tend to just delete the messages before actually reading them or leave the group completely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    For me, it depends.

    Sometimes they'll be a guess teacher / celebration night / specialist workshop / whatever happening that I might be interested in, which i'd otherwise miss out on.

    IF, however, I continue to get a emails about a regular class night, same time every week, - then of course I get into the habit of thinking I know what is contained in the email & I'll delete it without reading.

    I think for a new club just opening, spamming their regular class nights is fair enough.

    Often from the subject line alone you can quickly decide if you want to read further & can delete straight away anyway, so it doesn't really bother me too much.

    Plus as well i'm just nosey and like to know what's going on
    The internet marketers preach contact often - with quality content. The content may be a link to a relevant video or website or blog, or just some news in the email. They use automation so that each new subscriber gets the same standard sequence of timeless content mixed in with the news.

    I have suggested to Mike Ellard that he considered having a moderated blog section on the Ceroc Website to draw in Search traffic, and that he and franchisees contribute, that he work on his image as the expert face of Ceroc.

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    offer.

    They do a lot more than ceroc in the way of direct marketing: email newsletters & a facebook group which they do mail outs from, and actually several people have stated that they find them a little too aggressive in their sales patter.
    Isnt it funny how times have changed on this forum.

    A few years ago you would have the 'bully boy ceroc' and now its the 'bully boy independents'. Heaven forbid they promote a club night

    Is everyone on here now a ceroc franchise ?.

    Someone explain to me , if I want to set up a independent club and charge nothing for a few weeks what is wrong with that ??

    Also nobody from the threads I have read wants to defend a independents right to enter the market ?

    Anyway I would prefer upto date info rather then go on a out of date ceroc site to try and find out whats going on

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Someone explain to me , if I want to set up a independent club and charge nothing for a few weeks what is wrong with that ??

    Also nobody from the threads I have read wants to defend a independents right to enter the market ?
    You must be reading a different thread to me Stewart I can't see anyone saying the independent has done anything wrong by offering a few weeks for free.

    Also, I can't see where anyone's written anything 'against' independents setting up?

    The point I picked up on was Gus's curiosity, as to whether Facebook can make or break a club.
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post

    Someone explain to me , if I want to set up a independent club and charge nothing for a few weeks what is wrong with that ??
    Nothing. In fact in our area independents don't tend to do as good offers (taster nights at a discount for new night, and freestyles I've not noticed a particular discount or offer) as ceroc does (new first night is often free, half price beginners for several weeks, discounted freestyle for arriving early - obviously now having to work harder to keep their customers)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Anyway I would prefer upto date info rather then go on a out of date ceroc site to try and find out whats going on
    I would agree that often in our area ceroc misses the boat. In facebook terms, it's crew or teachers who're doing the reminders/events rather than the franchisee or venue manager.

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    Nothing. In fact in our area independents don't tend to do as good offers (taster nights at a discount for new night, and freestyles I've not noticed a particular discount or offer) as ceroc does (new first night is often free, half price beginners for several weeks, discounted freestyle for arriving early - obviously now having to work harder to keep their customers)...

    ... I would agree that often in our area ceroc misses the boat. In facebook terms, it's crew or teachers who're doing the reminders/events rather than the franchisee or venue manager.
    It should be noted by newer members of the forum that Ceroc is a Franchise organisation. There are policies in place from the top, but each area is a separate business run by different franchisees sometimes with very different views and policies.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Why the sour grapes ?
    My communication skills still seem to be lacking ... I've no investment in this story, just thought it was interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I would have put you at supporting the under dog ie The new start up venture. Never had you as a ceroceeee
    I've nothing against Ceroc per se, I've still a fair bit of emotional attachment given I was a Ceroc Franchisee and Teacher. Having siad that, I'm all for constructive competition as its healthy, driving up standards and consumer choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Seems to me you think ceroc are better/superior in every way and dont like the idea this new start up is taking up 'their' punters.??
    I do think that the targetted Ceroc club does have some significant advantages, but thats just form my limited perspective. We all know how diverse people's view of what 'good' is. Please understand that in the N East, probably unlike any other region in the UK, there is harmony for the most part on the dace scene. The Ceroc operators up here are really nice people and the vast majority of the independents work well together. There IS room for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    If the new club wants to be free for 3 months so what ? According to you the punters will soon realise what their missing at ceroc
    My point is it will be interesting to see how a new club tries to break into an established market. To be honest, I'm a little uneasy with the tactics so far as it feels like they have targeted the Ceroc club, even setting up on the same night, which is an odd approach.

    Across the UK I'm sure there are many Ceroc clubs that could be singled out with poor instructors, DJs who play only for their own benefit, sub-standard venues, franchisees who are focused on the cash rather than the dancers etc etc. They DESERVE serious competition. Still, I wait to see how things develop. Pass the popcorn etc.

    a

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    At last I'm going to be in a position to see at first hand what happens when a small start-up club tries to take on a large established Ceroc club.
    My philosophy is that every aspiring dancer wants to dance with the best dancers available. Therefore, if an organiser can lure away a relatively small number of 'key' dancers many other dancers will then follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    but it seems to only be women who have defected.
    Will the men who like to dance with these 'defectors' follow them to the new venue or will the women who 'defected' return to the 'ceroc-fold' due to shortage of men? My gut feeling is that men follow women and not the other way around.

    It sounds interesting, keep us posted on developments!!

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    [QUOTE=Bubble;558754 My gut feeling is that men follow women and not the other way around.
    [/QUOTE]

    That is an interesting point of view.

    I would have thought it the other way around.

    Take a bunch of experienced happy chappies, who dance well.

    My thoughts are, that you would have a flock of ladies wanting to attend that venue to get some good dances in.

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    Re: Hard core marketing - taking on an established Ceroc club

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    That is an interesting point of view.

    I would have thought it the other way around.

    Take a bunch of experienced happy chappies, who dance well.

    My thoughts are, that you would have a flock of ladies wanting to attend that venue to get some good dances in.
    if your venue has 50 men and 70 women as normal attendance and you lose 20 men that makes it 70/30. You are definitely going to get women following.

    If you lose 20 women that makes it 50/50. Meanwhile at the new venue the M/F balance will be affected in the opposite direction. The math does point to it being more important to lure away men, or retain them, depending which side of the fence you are on.

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