West Coast Swing Controversy on Dancing with the Stars 2009 in Australia

[Alan Doyle]

The Judges discuss West Coast Swing


Choreographer Charles Gil & Bianca Faber (NuRoc Dance Company) on Today Tonight


Skippy Blair discusses Australia's Channel 7's Dancing with the Stars' West Coast Swing episode '09 (I was behind the camera when this clip was being filmed)

[Lory]

Ha ha... ya gotta love WCS, if nothing else, it causes a lot of debate!

p.s, stick a pair of rhinestoned glasses on Skippy Blair and all of a sudden, we've got Dame Edna Everage

[bigdjiver]

The Judges discuss West Coast Swing


Choreographer Charles Gil & Bianca Faber (NuRoc Dance Company) on Today Tonight


Skippy Blair discusses Australia's Channel 7's Dancing with the Stars' West Coast Swing episode '09 (I was behind the camera when this clip was being filmed)

What I would to know is what the public thought of their routine. I have to say it did not inspire me that much, whatever it was, though, of course, I wish I could do as well.

[Caro]

The Judges discuss West Coast Swing


Choreographer Charles Gil & Bianca Faber (NuRoc Dance Company) on Today Tonight


Skippy Blair discusses Australia's Channel 7's Dancing with the Stars' West Coast Swing episode '09 (I was behind the camera when this clip was being filmed)

OMG it's so fun to see them all sat in Skippy's kitchen, including little Brady from Australia!!!! He did a Strictly with Carole from the Midlands in Denver and was around in Miami too


(ok and to post something on topic, I did think that the choreagraphers provided a WCS routine, adapted for a TV show obviously, but the basic elements of WCS were there, if not very well executed).

[straycat]

I have to say, it surprises me not one bit. The UK Strictly judges know nothing about Lindy, for example, as SDF showed us very clearly (I still have Arlene's voice echoing through my head, excitedly talking about how great a so-called Lindy routine was... "You had kicks, you had flicks...." )

It's certainly not surprising such judges had any proper knowledge of WCS. It's just a shame that they tried to cover their ignorance by going on the attack.

[DavidY]

(ok and to post something on topic, I did think that the choreagraphers provided a WCS routine, adapted for a TV show obviously, but the basic elements of WCS were there, if not very well executed).

How much of it would you say was distinctive as WCS?

As someone who knows little WCS, it seemed to me that you could label a good 2/3rds of what they did as 'Modern Jive'.

[Caro]

As someone who knows little WCS, it seemed to me that you could label a good 2/3rds of what they did as 'Modern Jive'.

I think it looks like MJ because they don't anchor properly, i.e. she is coming forward too soon. I do recognise some very common wcs patterns in the choreography, I think that the same routine done by competent wcs dancers would look a lot more like wcs...

[Lory]

How much of it would you say was distinctive as WCS?

Well, having watched the first minute of it again, apart from staying in some kind of slot, there's very little I personally recognise as proper WCS..

The anchors are practically non existent and as Caro said, she comes forward too soon. I can spot 'rock steps' (aka MJ) and the timing isn't what I'd call typical of WCS.
Yes, there are tripples in there and some familiar patterns but if I'm honest, unless I knew what was supposed to be, it wouldn't have shouted WCS at me

Oh yes, I spotted a definite latin influence with a nice 'hockey stick', (Cha cha/rhumba styley) thrown in for good measure too!

BUT, I think the issue here is more that the judges weren't clued up on (modern) WCS and were looking for elements that weren't really WCS

[frodo]

I have to say, it surprises me not one bit. The UK Strictly judges know nothing about Lindy, for example, as SDF showed us very clearly (I still have Arlene's voice echoing through my head, excitedly talking about how great a so-called Lindy routine was... "You had kicks, you had flicks...." )

It's certainly not surprising such judges had any proper knowledge of WCS. It's just a shame that they tried to cover their ignorance by going on the attack.

BUT, I think the issue here is more that the judges weren't clued up on (modern) WCS and were looking for elements that weren't really WCS

I don't get it why that is thought the issue at all.


Fundamentally the judges seem spot on (aside from the lady judge unwisely attempting to maintain a fiction).

OK they may not have known you can take out the triples, but isn't that esoteric minutiae, if the dance is missing the effects.

Did the judges really need to know anything more. Why should it need an expert in WCS (rather than an expert in dance) to judge it at that level ?

[Lory]

Did the judges really need to know anything more. Why should it need an expert in WCS (rather than an expert in dance) to judge it at that level ?

I'm not sure it needs a 'top WCS judge' but at least someone who's up to speed on the fundamentals

On the same token, at 'that' level, I think the contestants should be incorporating some of the 'basic fundamentals' in their routine.. i.e. demonstrating they can anchor properly and tripple in time.

[Dottie]

Fundamentally the judges seem spot on (aside from the lady judge unwisely attempting to maintain a fiction).

I tend to agree that the first judge is correct. For me the most noticeable thing is the lack of rhythm (making it look more like MJ... i.e.walk,walk)and the lack of swing content. I think the female pro is confusing the term "swing" with "swing of the hips" which are two separate issues.

WCS is based around resistance/compression and this is missing for the majority of the dance, partly because I don't think she is holding frame correctly, he is arm leading a lot and there is a lack of anchor.
In order to get the fundamentals looking anywhere near correct in a week I think the end result would probabaly look very basic so I think the choreographers felt they had to compromise and strike a balance between technical correctness and interesting patterns (incorrectly executed).

I agree with Lory that the judges should be up to speed on their fundamentals which the female judge obviously wasn't.

I wonder if SCD will think about incorporating WCS??

[straycat]

Did the judges really need to know anything more. Why should it need an expert in WCS (rather than an expert in dance) to judge it at that level ?

If a judge is going to claim that something isn't proper WCS & mark it down accordingly, I'd say they need to know something about WCS, yes.

Having said that, it did make me laugh when the pro suggested they were dancing to a fast track.... surely 120(ish) BPM is hardly fast, even for WCS? Or am I judging this too much by Lindy standards?

[Lory]

In order to get the fundamentals looking anywhere near correct in a week I think the end result would probabaly look very basic so I think the choreographers felt they had to compromise and strike a balance between technical correctness and interesting patterns (incorrectly executed).

Exactly!

[AussieJ]

Thanks for the Youtube clips Alan, I had only been vaguely aware of the WCS/DWTS 'controversy' when I noted a couple of my Facebook friends' status updates mentioned the judge Helen Richey's remarks. I was none the wiser as I hadn't seen any DWTS '09 footage, until stumbling on this thread just now!

Off-topic: Wow what a small world this is - that third clip was very interesting to watch for me as an Aussie! Brady (whom I don't know of, he's an Adelaide boy and already in the US WCS circuit according to Caro?), and two people who I've known ever since I started MJ at Le Step Brisbane 2 years ago, Jamie Burr and Erin Kenny!!! Prior to watching the Youtube clip, I had NO IDEA that Jamie and Erin are into WCS at all, so it came as a complete shock for me to see them both hanging out with WCS luminaries Skippy Blair and Mary Ann Nunez! Hooray for WCS in Brisbane!

On-topic: I found another clip showing Charles Gil and Bianca Faber talking about the judges' discussions on Channel 7's Sunrise show. ( ).

I have to agree with most of the comments above me (Caro, Dottie, Lory, et al.). After watching the first two clips, I definitely took a dim view towards Helen Richey's comments as being unnecessarily harsh and uninformed. But then I watched the third clip, and Skippy Blair's comments were quite insightful and balanced - she said you should NEVER question a judge even if the judge is plainly wrong, especially in such a public audience; whereas Charles felt that Luda was right to query the judging criteria instead of nodding and playing along with it.

At the end of the day, it was a big miscommunication kerfuffle that led to the judge(s) looking for things that the choreographers and contestants were not aiming for in a (modern) WCS dance performed for the DWTS audience.

On a final note, I am curious whether this 'controversy' has drummed up more interest back home into the WCS scene (e.g. newcomers at NuRoc in Sydney), more than the DWTS show would normally have generated, had there not been this controversy? I might have to ask my friends back home what they all thought, or whether this entire episode is 'just water under the bridge' now, so to speak...