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Thread: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

  1. #21
    Registered User fandangle's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    I'm sure WCS has it's advocates just as does MJ but that does not mean that all MJers should have to take up WCS. There is plenty of room for both WCS and MJ to live side by side but this thread is about whether mixed events work and I don't believe so.

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    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    I've never been to a mixed MJ / WCS event, but I have been to quite a few mixed MJ / Ballroom & Latin freestyles. I'm not a big fan of mixed events - in my experience they're fine if you can do both kinds of dance, but for those of us who only do MJ they tend to be a bit of a pain. You're sat out 50% of the time, listening to music you (mostly) can't really dance to, yet you pay the same to get in as everyone else. Plus the music tends to be a bit of a compromise and doesn't flow as well as a "pure" MJ night.

    Just my 2 pfennigs' worth

  3. #23
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by fandangle View Post
    ........ this thread is about whether mixed events work and I don't believe so.
    Utopia London is one of the most popular regular events I know of, and it works there and without the second room

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    I've never been to a mixed MJ / WCS event, but I have been to quite a few mixed MJ / Ballroom & Latin freestyles. I'm not a big fan of mixed events - in my experience they're fine if you can do both kinds of dance, but for those of us who only do MJ they tend to be a bit of a pain. You're sat out 50% of the time, listening to music you (mostly) can't really dance to, yet you pay the same to get in as everyone else. Plus the music tends to be a bit of a compromise and doesn't flow as well as a "pure" MJ night.
    It all depends on the DJs and the music they play - a good DJ will read the floor and if there are a number of dancers actually dancing WCS they usually play music that both MJ & WCS dancers can cope with.

    Most WCS dancers stick to those they know can follow/lead - so if the children play nicely it can work.

    I loved it when we used to mixed Lindy with MJ, but we don't seem to hear lindy stuff anymore in MJ events (possible because of the lack of lindy dancers there )

    However, a dedicated dance style event will always be better - but this would be down to numbers and cost.


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  4. #24
    Registered User LilyB's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    Utopia London is one of the most popular regular events I know of, and it works there and without the second room.


    I, for one, think it is pefectly OK to mix MJ and WCS. In fact, how do you prevent it? If the music being played suits both styles, there will/may be people who choose to dance one or the other. Strangely enough, you will find this mix only at MJ events. From what I have observed, you will not see MJ being danced at WCS events, even if the music is suitable for both styles.

    Speaking from a personal point of view, I have never had any problems mixing the 2 styles - sometimes in the one dance, depending on floor space . To me, it is analogous to mixing MJ and Cha-cha in the same dance - something we see so frequently on the MJ dance floor. Both these styles are quite distinct from MJ in terms of footwork, connection and technique, but as an experienced ballroom, WCS and MJ dancer, I can see no reason whatsoever why the 3 styles cannot co-exist, provided the right music is being played. In fact, I could go on - I find that you can also mix in some Hustle, Rumba, East Coast Swing, Salsa and, heavens, even Tango , in certain tracks played at MJ venues.

    Of course, if people simply do not like to mix their dances, that is a different matter ....

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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I wasn't talking about a variation. The basic/default leaders footwork (as taught by Paul and Cat) for the UT is now step down the slot on 2 rather than crossing. I don't know at what point this change was made as my attendance at classes is patchy but I know I cross more often than not just out of muscle memory from the way that I originally was taught by them.
    The "Back & Back" It's the easier and better version(Imho) for beginners to learn, it doesnt create the contra body position on two that the cross does, with the contra position timing is more easily comprimised (becomes 3 a4)as well as the tendency to step up the slot on the 2.

    On a side note, I think both dances do work well together on the dance floor!

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    Registered User sunnybunny's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    to Minnie M and Lily B above.

    Some of my most memorable dances recently have been a mixture of WCS & MJ.

  7. #27
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Yes, my teachers are the same. They changed, I dunno, six months ago, maybe more. Personally, I have yet to see any decent US Pro use this method (not saying they don't, just not seen it). I have come to the conclusion that if crossing is good enough for Jordan, it's good enough for me So I ignore it and cross as always.

    Heh, frankly I am probably in the wrong on this second one, I also ignore the no-prep on '1' instruction as well since I learn't to prep on one sometimes. This one I can actually see a reason for the change, but since it doesn't seem to effect either my or my partners dancing and IMO actually looks better to prep on '1' and '2' (better flow) rather than just on '2', I ignore it also.
    Jordan teaches a prep on '1' for some patterns also. I think the no-prep on '1' thinking is intended as a prevention of the widely swinging side to side over-preps that are sometimes seen. Having said that 'prep' is short for 'preparation (for rotation) so if a prep does not lead into that rotation but instead leads to another 'prep' you'd have to question why you're 'prep'ping the '1' in the first place. When all's said and done though - like the 'back, back' method for the UT vs crossing neither is 'wrong', they are just a preference - the dance is evolving and teacher's viewpoints evolve accordingly. My point was that simply that I was finding it hard to adjust from one way of thinking to another because the muscle memory just kicks in. Either method still works fine on the social floor. I guess the only problem would be if I was in a comp being judged by someone who had a distince preference for one style or the other.

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    I also think mixed events work OK provided that there is sufficient floor space - tensions only tend to arise on crowded floors.

    Some people moan about some of the music at mixed events but they also moan about the music at straight MJ or WCS events - who'd be a DJ?

  9. #29
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB View Post
    ...From what I have observed, you will not see MJ being danced at WCS events, even if the music is suitable for both styles.

    - I find that you can also mix in some Hustle, Rumba, East Coast Swing, Salsa and, heavens, even Tango , in certain tracks played at MJ venues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    I've never been to a mixed MJ / WCS event, but I have been to quite a few mixed MJ / Ballroom & Latin freestyles. I'm not a big fan of mixed events ... You're sat out 50% of the time, listening to music you (mostly) can't really dance to, yet you pay the same to get in as everyone else.
    There may not be room for both sets of dancers to be on the floor at the same time and/or a culture of only dancing in the approved slots, but I'd be surprised if less than around 70% wasn't danceable both ways.

    I think the limiting factor isn't really the music (for example if you want to dance MJ at a WCS event as LilyB mentioned above).

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    On a side note, I think both dances do work well together on the dance floor!
    The dances/music work well together , but the people/expections/culture may be a different matter.

    The culture can vary considerably between classes of a particularly dance style, so it may not always be wise to generalise.

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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    The culture can vary considerably between classes of a particularly dance style, so it may not always be wise to generalise.
    I run a regular monthly M Jive/ WCS freestyle. But youre right, it may not always be wise to generalise.

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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I also think mixed events work OK provided that there is sufficient floor space - tensions only tend to arise on crowded floors.

    Some people moan about some of the music at mixed events but they also moan about the music at straight MJ or WCS events - who'd be a DJ?
    I ageee with Robd - I think it would be a shame if WCS and MJ were completely split. I have no problem dancing alongside WCS dancers and though I am not a WCS dancer I do dance (muddle along) with them at times (probably more enjoyable for me than them). Most of the time we can all dance in the same room and it just gives us more choice. The same with Tango dances in the blues room, I see this as an added bonus not a problem. I think we all need to be tolerant of each over. I think it would be a shame if everyone split into separate groups from a social point of view as much as a dance point of view

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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Which is fine until your teachers decide to start teaching an underarm turn with a step back down the slot on 2 instead of crossing.
    I might be wrong there but isn't that how Arjay teaches it too?

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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I wasn't talking about a variation. The basic/default leaders footwork (as taught by Paul and Cat) for the UT is now step down the slot on 2 rather than crossing. I don't know at what point this change was made as my attendance at classes is patchy but I know I cross more often than not just out of muscle memory from the way that I originally was taught by them.
    That's the way I was trained to teach it as well (using a classic shared slot rather than the man getting out of the slot for the lady to pass by).
    Last edited by Alan Doyle; 26th-July-2009 at 09:02 PM.

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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    I for one love being able to go to an event and dance MJ as well as WCS, long may it continue.
    It is quite surprising how many followers want to try both out depending on the music, lucky me gets to dance with lots of lovely followers, its a hard life and somebody has to do it

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Dedicated WCS events or mixed MJ/WCS events?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I might be wrong there but isn't that how Arjay teaches it too?
    I believe so. He certainly taught a basic whip at Brean this year with the leads stepping down slot on 5 rather than rotating in place (as did Christopher Hussey at Frinley Green in October)

    Different strokes for different folks.

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