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Thread: Help learning blues...

  1. #21
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    My motivation has come from a recent slow ceroc dance I had with a (then) stranger, - a fantastically sensual and connected dance which blew me away.
    Aha, you've already achieved one of the key things in blues then - that connection. Isn't it fab? Esp when you have that with a complete stranger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    she lives some distance from me however we're going to get together soon and she's going to go through some bluesy things with me (she has a lot of dance experience)...
    And you've got someone to practice with. Perfect. You can experiment with letting the follower play.

    Its not just about slowing down, that's part of it but you can have lovely contrast between slow moves and some faster ones, then a pause and back into slow.

    The perfect blues dance is a three way connection between you, your partner and the music, together you create and shape the dance. Its lovely and as others have said - it can be addictive!

  2. #22
    Registered User Lost Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Lot of good advice already;

    - Agree that Val and Rocky's blues DVD's are good.
    - Frank's teaching about connection is very important.
    - Watching other dancers also helps a lot.
    - Appreciate that there are a lot of different ways to dance to "Blues" music.
    - Get to as many blues rooms as you can, you can't beat learning by doing.
    - Really get into the music, a lot of blues room tunes are more subtle and less obvious than main room stuff so they demand closer attention if you are to get the most out of them.
    - Give followers more space and an opportunity to play.

    Enjoy the journey!

  3. #23
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    A few crumbs of random advice:
    • Close your eyes - it helps focus on the tactical senses.
    • Try and see just how minimal a physical connection you need - normally you will find that the lightest touches provide the most intense connections.
    • Smaller. Enter the zone where the rise and fall of your breathing is enough to lead with.
    • Listen to the music and try and move with the lead instrument within it rather than the underlying beat
    • Listen to your partner and make your movements a reaction to theirs; open yourself up to not just focusing on how to lead your partner, but what is happening when you lead your partner.
    • Don't lift your feet at all; at the most, raise your heels off the ground to get weight transfer.
    • Don't lead with your hands. Forget about them. Your whole body moves and can be used to lead your partner. Every point of contact (or almost point of contact) is used - all together.
    • Don't lead moves, lead rhythms and movements; trace patterns from the music.


    {Oh, and there is an on-line workshop thingie somewhere that I put together... here}

  4. #24
    The Original Scooby Dave Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    I was going to say keep your eyes open to focus on the girl, one of my favourite blues dancer Bill "better than choclate" is excellent at this.

    Also this thread has featured some of the current Ceroc blues teachers who are all teaching roughly the same style, but check out Marc & Racheal who teach and dance their blues quite differently or Simon Selmon or Joseph Sewell (my favourite - a man of great style).

    I'd agree with most of what's been posted, as with anything the only way to improve is to get out there and try it, you'll soon learn certain things feel better than others, come up to Ignite on Saturday and you'll have a great learning experience.

    One of the other things I like in blues which I sometimes mess about with dependent on the song is trying to instigate something similar to the call and respond which you get in older style blues, one partner does something and then the other one mirrors, this can be very subtle but is often a lot of fun.

    One of the other things about blues is you might not pick up a whole bunch from watching people as it doesn't always look to flash, it is more of an intiment dance and if dancing it I try to dance it for my partner, so by simply watching you're going to miss a lot of the subtle things happening, eye movements, body isolations etc which all add to make this one of the best forms of dancing I've ever found.

    Also agree with the previous comment about breathing, have had some seriously enjoyable blues dances when my partner and my own breathing ended up synchronised and in time with the music, a wonderful feeling of connectedness follows......

    Good luck on your quest and if you get along to Ignite feel free to seek me out as I'm also hugely passionate about the blues.

  5. #25
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    my first experience with blues was at storm 2008 when kel warminster forced me to stand still in the blues room at about 3 am on the last night for some reason it sudenly clicked with me and i had a true eureka moment

    a few moths later i did one of adam nathansons musicality workshops mixing the two together i now get a lot of enjoyment from dancing blues
    first and formost listen to what your partner is trying to do to the music

    this year at storm we did a micro blues masterclass with lucky skillern where we were almost standing still and just learned about connection i came out of it sweating as much as i would have an hrs fast ceroc and completely exhausted
    Apart from a couple of basic blues lessons i just do what feels right to the music
    as others have said before ( and in my opinion) connection and musicality are probably the most important parts of blues

  6. #26
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    ... many Modern Jive companies try to flog "Blues Fusion" workshops to Modern Jivers. I guess these workshops are OK if you just want to have a little dabble dancing to slower, more interesting music. But there's not a whole lot of 'value' to be had from anything that includes the F word (fusion) in my view; be it Tango Fusion, Blues Fusion, River Dance Fusion.
    Now that could be an interesting discussion, and quite enlightening for the thread ... Why is there 'not a whole lot of value' in fusion workshops - particularly in the light of all the fusion music that's played now in the blues/COZ/chill out rooms?

    And how would you distinguish fusion blues from pure blues?

    In fact:

    Although most people in the UK find Blues after dancing Modern Jive. Blues dancing is not as a lot of people seem to imagine, an extension of Modern Jive. Blues is a different way to dance altogether.
    In what way is blues so different, given that

    Blues is not all about moves.
    Blues is about musical and physical connection.
    moves should really be vehicles used for explaining core connection concepts.
    In Blues we try to form a simultaneous connection with our partner, and the music.
    Why can't any of the above apply to 'modern jive'? Should/shouldn't it? Obviously, the above is not frequently taught in standard mj beginner lessons, but you seem to be talking more about the dance form, rather than beginner lessons.

    Perhaps it all come down to how we define modern jive ... (and I've never seen a good - definitive - description yet! )

    Rachel

  7. #27
    Registered User ant's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Hi Phil

    I can only tell you how I have tackled the problem you are now facing.

    When I first came across Blues dancing, at weekenders, it sort of freaked me out and I quickly came to the realisation that the MJ I had been learning did not equip me for Blues dancing.

    I started to go to two main providers of Blues workshops in MJ terms, Howard and Nicola and Dave and Val. These helped but I felt I still had a lot to learn.

    I then attended the connection workshops run by Franck (twice, he was only available twice) and The Cuban Blues workshop run by Marc and Rachel (3 times) and the Jango workshops run by Amir (4 times). These also helped.

    I then started to work out how the more popular Blues dancers, in MJ terms, danced (the ones followers liked dancing with) and they hardly moved, except from their hips. So I started to learn to move my hips in time with the music and using different timings with the music, normal time, double time and half time. This helped me tremendously.

    At the same time I continued to develope a basic move Dave and Val and Howard and Nicola taught, I think it is called a Penguin, moving in a circle. and using this in various ways.

    At that point I started to learn other dances. The two that have helped my own version of Blues dancing, have been Rumba and Tango.

    Rumba has been helpful from a musicality generally point of view and by the delayed hip actions you have to master with this dance. South Kensington Dance Studios run Rumba specific courses once a year.

    I have also found that Tango has been a big help, it has helped close connection, leading from the body and walking patterns you can use in Blues. In some respects I have found this to be an extension of Francks connection, Marc's Cuban Blues and Amirs Jango classes.

    I have not yet tried going the Lindy route to learn Blues. As I understand it teachers like Simon Selmon and Nigel and Nina teach more in this direction but I suspect that you would be better led by someone like Straycat if you eventually want to go this route.

    Above all you have got to get your musicallity right and to this end go to as many workshops as you find on this subject, whether or not they are specifically aimed at Blues.

    Good luck
    Last edited by ant; 16th-July-2009 at 06:38 AM.

  8. #28
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Wow. What a fantastic response.

    Thankyou so much to everyone who has posted. Everything has been read with great interest, and will no doubt be read again.

    If I don't respond to your post doesn't mean you haven't been a great help (just nothing specific to reply at this moment in time).

    Fantastic information and advice - THANK-YOU.




    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    What are you up to next Friday (24th)

    A Great example of Blues dancing on . Note the way that the lead is using the movements of the follow. It's kind of like a dance version of jamming
    Nice link. Actually there's loads of blues on youtube

    What's going on next Friday?




    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Aha, you've already achieved one of the key things in blues then - that connection. Isn't it fab? Esp when you have that with a complete stranger.
    Good connection has always been a big thing for me, ever since I first started, - it makes the world of difference. If you have no connection with your partner, as far as i'm concerned you may as well be dancing with a broom, or a cardboard cut out




    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    And you've got someone to practice with. Perfect. You can experiment with letting the follower play.
    Yes, but I won't see her that often because of distance.. - better than nothing though !




    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Its not just about slowing down, that's part of it but you can have lovely contrast between slow moves and some faster ones, then a pause and back into slow.

    The perfect blues dance is a three way connection between you, your partner and the music, together you create and shape the dance. Its lovely and as others have said - it can be addictive!





    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hancock View Post

    One of the other things about blues is you might not pick up a whole bunch from watching people as it doesn't always look to flash, it is more of an intiment dance and if dancing it I try to dance it for my partner, so by simply watching you're going to miss a lot of the subtle things happening, eye movements, body isolations etc which all add to make this one of the best forms of dancing I've ever found.
    I think i see what you mean...

    There's quite a few of these sorts of videos around, which go into a bit of detail - i've found them quite helpful so far...






    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    Hi Phil

    I can only tell you how I have tackled the problem you are now facing.
    Thanks for sharing Ant, - a great help as always. And wow, some fantastic workshops you've done there.






    A little birdy has given me a little sneak preview of what I might be learning on Sunday...: - i'm hoping they're right....










  9. #29
    The Original Scooby Dave Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    I liked the first clip you put up, and it helps emphasis something I was thinking after I posted yesterday and that it the downward motion of blues which is a bit unusual as I've never considered in any other style of MJ for their to be a body directional movement (not explaining it well but you get body directional movements which are very noticable in the likes of samba and nightclub 2 step - Skippy Blair had a term for this and it's totally gone from my mind).

    The other thing which is good and you should take from the clip is the softening of the knees which is certainly at the forefront of my mind when dancing blues.

    As for the clips with the moves in, they were okay but to me lacked a little of the essence of blues and just looked like moves which is you turned the music off wouldn't have neccessarily suggested one was dancing blues. I can only talk for myself but I only really have 3 moves in blues, an invitational thing (or side pass for those of swing persuasion), a rotational step which can be in closed or a bit more of an open hold and what I think of as a closed rocks position (believe that's the name in rumba but just think standing together and transfering weight from side to side).

    These 3 basic moves have got me by on the blues floor throughout the years and the rest of it is just improvisation, if you want to dance the blues then don't get caught up in the moves just go with the flow.

    Would also say that someone else mentioned Adam Nathonson and thought he taught blues very well and seemed to be able to get the point of the feeling of the dance across very well.

  10. #30
    Registered User The Passion Harem's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Enjoy it. It is just a dance


    Very Important



  11. #31
    Registered User Tessalicious's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Hi Phil,

    Good to see more recruits to the blues cult. If you're interested in learning a little blues outside the MJ scene - the kind of blues you saw from Dustin and Ally, Lucky and Brenda, and any of Mihai with a plethora of women - then straycat's suggestion of Blues Revolution is a really good option.

    There's an event being run by them on Saturday 25th July, with a beginner-friendly class (still useful for non-beginners) called Down Home Blues, and a weekend of workshops on 4th September. Although I've not yet made it to their events, having only just learnt about them myself, I hear they have excellent teachers, DJs and atmosphere.

    Good luck on the quest for perfect blues!
    Tess

    EDIT: that link again, in case you missed it above - http://www.bluesrevolution.co.uk/

  12. #32
    Registered User Danny's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    I'm absolutely gutted that Blues Revolution have a 3 hr blues night on the same night as the Hammersmith freestyle where my friends will be.

  13. #33
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    I'm absolutely gutted that Blues Revolution have a 3 hr blues night on the same night as the Hammersmith freestyle where my friends will be.
    Well - there's loads of Hammersmith freestyles. And not nearly enough decent blues nights. I know which one I'd choose...

  14. #34
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Lots of good advice already on this thread.

    Key things I've learned are:


    • Dancing in general is about letting the music flow through you, so that the music, you and your partner 'connect' in some sort of sublime way that you can't put into words. Enabling this to happen to expressive Blues music takes this 'sublime feeling' to another level! So one of the best ways to start is to get a taste of Blues music that is regularly played in venues and to listen to loads of it, and try to get the feel of it in your bones. PM me and I can give you ideas of tracks, or go to some of the links in the DJ section of the forum where there are threads on Blues music.
    • If you are a lead, your follows (usually women) are generally not interested in whether you can do a thousand flashy moves in one dance. They primarily like to feel good. If they FEEL good, they'll LOOK good... and feeling good comes from the connection and musical expression... not usually the moves. So.... don't worry about 'moves', or learning new 'Blues' moves... and worrying about disappointing women... just use what you already have and adapt it to a slower more intimate feel where 'less is more' and you'll be fine. It's already worked for you once by the sound of it (to your surprise?!)... and that was before a Blues workshop. The more you do this and the more you hang out in Blues rooms and the more you see other good dancers and ask them to dance the more you'll develop your own style and be confident with it. It just takes time, that's all. Like Blues music and Blues dancing in general... you can't hurry it!
    • Learn to accept your own style. I've watched Rocky live and on the DVDs and felt like giving up coz he's so good! I've watched Stokie and felt the same! And Simon and Nicole... and Franck... and Blue Shoes... and countless others.... But then I began to just accept that I'm NOT Rocky... and I'm NOT Stokie...etc...I'm ME... and I dance differently to them... and to be comfortable with that. You will end up with your own style and as long as the musicality is there and you enable your follows to feel good you will never be short of requests for dances in Blues rooms. Having a roomful of people each with their own unique style is what can make a Blues dance evening so interesting for many of the leads and follows who attend. If there was one 'right' way it would be boring!

    Look forward to bumping into you (hopefully not literally) somewhere in a Blues room sometime!

  15. #35
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    More great postings since my last post - thanks in particular Tess, Dave & Revdrop.





    Quote Originally Posted by Revdrop View Post
    Lots of good advice already on this thread.

    Key things I've learned are:


    • Dancing in general is about letting the music flow through you, so that the music, you and your partner 'connect' in some sort of sublime way that you can't put into words. Enabling this to happen to expressive Blues music takes this 'sublime feeling' to another level! So one of the best ways to start is to get a taste of Blues music that is regularly played in venues and to listen to loads of it, and try to get the feel of it in your bones. PM me and I can give you ideas of tracks, or go to some of the links in the DJ section of the forum where there are threads on Blues music.
    • Great idea - makes a lot of sense to me, thanks.


      Quote Originally Posted by Revdrop View Post
    • If you are a lead, your follows (usually women) are generally not interested in whether you can do a thousand flashy moves in one dance. They primarily like to feel good. If they FEEL good, they'll LOOK good... and feeling good comes from the connection and musical expression... not usually the moves. So.... don't worry about 'moves', or learning new 'Blues' moves... and worrying about disappointing women... just use what you already have and adapt it to a slower more intimate feel where 'less is more' and you'll be fine. It's already worked for you once by the sound of it (to your surprise?!)... and that was before a Blues workshop. The more you do this and the more you hang out in Blues rooms and the more you see other good dancers and ask them to dance the more you'll develop your own style and be confident with it. It just takes time, that's all. Like Blues music and Blues dancing in general... you can't hurry it!
    Sounds like more great advice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Revdrop View Post
  16. Learn to accept your own style. I've watched Rocky live and on the DVDs
    and felt like giving up coz he's so good! I've watched Stokie and felt the same! And Simon and Nicole... and Franck... and Blue Shoes... and countless others.... But then I began to just accept that I'm NOT Rocky... and I'm NOT Stokie...etc...I'm ME... and I dance differently to them... and to be comfortable with that. You will end up with your own style and as long as the musicality is there and you enable your follows to feel good you will never be short of requests for dances in Blues rooms. Having a roomful of people each with their own unique style is what can make a Blues dance evening so interesting for many of the leads and follows who attend. If there was one 'right' way it would be boring!
Quote Originally Posted by Revdrop View Post
Look forward to bumping into you (hopefully not literally) somewhere in a Blues room sometime!
I have been told that I have made Ceroc my own dance.. also asked where I learnt my footwork from (I didn't realise either was so different until it was commented on), - so I think I know where you're coming from here, - hopefully I can continue in this vain and put my own stamp on blues once I get comfortable with it.


Great post RD - thanks.
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  • #36
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    The most fundamental aspects of Blues dancing are essentialy the same as learning any dance: that is it should be about connection, frame, compression, leverage, momentum and musicality. So on that basis a pure connection workshop and a pure musicality workshop should be at the top of the list when starting. When we teach a general beginners Blues workshop we cover elements of all of those but we also make an assumption that as many people do come to Blues from other dance forms, that they will be aware of those elements to some degree, so we do also concentrate on moves too.

    The reason for this is that the transition from a close hold out to a move, and back in close again, is what causes most people problems when first starting. And that problem comes from moving against the placement of your partner’s weight distribution (that’s why you often see beginners stumble when they are brought in close and are lead into a basic weight distribution sway). Using basic moves it’s easier to show that in action by explaining that if you step here with this foot it shifts your partner’s weight to here, and then when you place your foot here it shifts their weight this way… and so on. Dancers also need a set of moves to begin with that work at slower tempos, so you clearly have to teach a foundation number of moves for them to build on – and of course there are moves that help you to hit stops, and those that use double time, or use an extension etc. etc.

    The other aspect of where Blues differs from MJ, for example, is in the basic movement which involves a lateral weight distribution from side to side as opposed to stepping in and out and also in the range of movement. In this aspect it’s a little more like WCS than MJ. In WCS although the dancers are often taking an equal number of steps the lady does far more travelling. That’s my style, and it’s how we teach – the guy becomes the central point and the lady becomes the focal point. It involves leading through the body more which naturally results in stepping around and leading with your arms, far less – and that again all comes down to how you distribute your weight, how you commit your partners weight and how each of you can use your partners weight to create momentum when required.

    Also of great importance is in making sure followers should only move when they are lead to do so and that is also OK not to move at all! Waiting to be lead is again a basic fundamental of most dances but it’s not a given when people are coming from an MJ background where they are constantly stepping in and out. So it does require a shift in thinking from constant motion and some anticipation (if only in the in and out motion) to real lead and follow and in real connection to the music.

    I would agree with most of the comments on here regarding ‘feeling’ and actually couldn’t express that any better than Rev Drop’s first paragraph above – however, that’s at its purest form and it’s my belief that moves are important to get you there. I mean you can have feeling coming out of your ears but if you can’t do anything to express that feeling in a range of movement then that will only lead to frustration (that is unless you only have 3 or 4 Blues dances a night where a varied range of motion doesn’t become boring for both you and your partner).

    Lastly, musicality is paramount, as it should be with all dance forms and of course you can do pure musicality workshops. But the easiest way to understand musicality is to firstly watch how good Blues dancers interpret the music and then also to listen to a varied mix of Bluesable music. The listening is really important and that applies even if you’re not consciously listening to the music – so having music on around the house or in the car. The brain (and in fact all of nature) has a mathematical resonance so that we are already hard wired to understand and interpret anything with a mathematical signature. Music is pure mathematics in construction and so it’s structure from the beats, to the bars to the verses, bridges and choruses follow a set formula. Your brain screens an awful lot of stuff out when you’re concentrating on something, but it doesn’t ignore it – it is noted and logged, which is why just having music on will help your musicality because those structures and forms will be subliminally embedded in your subconscious. If you do this enough, along with the dancing as well obviously, you will get to that place that will enable you to hit stops in the music to tracks you may never have heard before. As has been mentioned, there are a number of threads in the DJ section that you give plenty to start with and it’s well worth downloading a series of tracks and getting a CD organized to play as often as you can and especially on the way to an event to get you in the mood.

    All of this of course is useless unless you do go out there and dance! You just have to get some basics under your built and then immerse yourself in it. And whilst doing this always be sure to be open to the moment – and judging from you’re posts Phil you’ve already been there. The best dances come from nowhere other than from the pure connection to your partner and the music - and then moves really do become irrelevant because you are no longer in control of what happens and you enter into the most exquisite dialogue of mind, body and soul…

    Good luck with it and I really do hope you continue to find the pleasure and joy that many of us have found in those darkened rooms locked in an embrace, late in the night, with the perfect track, and the perfect partner as the rest of the World hurries on past..

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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I would agree with most of the comments on here regarding ‘feeling’ and actually couldn’t express that any better than Rev Drop’s first paragraph above –
    Wow! Thanks for that comment... Rocky.... you and Val were the first to get me into Blues dancing... so I feel very honoured!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I really do hope you continue to find the pleasure and joy that many of us have found in those darkened rooms locked in an embrace, late in the night, with the perfect track, and the perfect partner as the rest of the World hurries on past..

  • #38
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Thank-you so much for taking the time to post your advice Rocky, it's hugely appreciated.

    I've printed off the entire thread to read over and take in properly.

    I'm certainly going to get a Blues collection together to play around the house/car.







    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    The reason for this is that the transition from a close hold out to a move, and back in close again, is what causes most people problems when first starting. And that problem comes from moving against the placement of your partner’s weight distribution (that’s why you often see beginners stumble when they are brought in close and are lead into a basic weight distribution sway).
    I'm currently experiencing this in Ceroc... - many follows I dance with (at the point i've brought them in close for a basic blues sway) anticipate being twisted back out again,... - I read what sounds like a great idea in Gadget's online workshop; if they do this - just follow them round - penguin like - I will try this soon

    I do suspect that if I lead the first weight transfer moreso by 'sinking my weight into the floor' a little more pronounced this may happen less.

    (just to mention, others for some reason have trouble keeping their right hand down low whilst swaying.. - one the other night was waving my hand around all over the place (?) )


    Similarly, I also often get thrown off balance if I try to do a full beat penguin instead of the 'usual' half beat one many follows seem to expect/anticipate. I'm sure I can improve my lead on both these movements with practice, - in this respect I think learning blues will really help my musicality where ceroc is concerned too


    What i'm describing seems to coincide with what you said here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Also of great importance is in making sure followers should only move when they are lead to do so and that is also OK not to move at all! Waiting to be lead is again a basic fundamental of most dances but it’s not a given when people are coming from an MJ background where they are constantly stepping in and out. So it does require a shift in thinking from constant motion and some anticipation (if only in the in and out motion) to real lead and follow and in real connection to the music.
    It's rare that I don't experience this anticipation of constantly stepping in & out as you describe in Ceroc when I want to slow the dance down, - follows who really only moves when I lead are like a breath of fresh air - its nice to hear someone else clearly articulate what has been going through my mind the last couple of weeks




    What a fantastic help this thread is turning out to be.
    Last edited by Phil_dB; 17th-July-2009 at 05:14 PM.

  • #39
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I really do hope you continue to find the pleasure and joy that many of us have found in those darkened rooms locked in an embrace, late in the night, with the perfect track, and the perfect partner as the rest of the World hurries on past..
    Awwwwwww

  • #40
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Help learning blues...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    It's rare that I don't experience this anticipation of constantly stepping in & out as you describe in Ceroc when I want to slow the dance down, - follows who really only moves when I lead are like a breath of fresh air
    But should it be classed as anticipation? I'd think it more likely to be natural momentum that you haven't lead a slowing/stopping for. I'd also say this is one of the dominant characteristics of MJ and is something I expect from a follower when dancing MJ. If I want the follow to stop or slow down then it's down to me to communicate that through my lead and connection. I can think of only a couple of people with whom I have danced more than infrequently who I would have said always waited to be lead in MJ. I also found this inertia pretty frustrating as a default position.

    Of course there are follows who do their best to ignore my attempts to slow/stop this accordion motion and continue to step in/out but that's just poor (inattentive) following IMO and is not something I encounter particularly often (then again, I am a hotshot that doesn't ask many people to dance )

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