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Thread: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

  1. #141
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Oh, get a grip some of you.

    All this talk of bullying and harrasment is basically a reference to Rocky who I'd guess, for good or bad, is probably the forumite who makes the most impact.

    * displaying the same hypocrisy that he lambasts in others - for example, he arrived on here slating a certain teacher's professionalism yet that same teacher was on the teaching bill for Lux
    I actually was referring to all the characters that have been on the forum.

    The "certain teacher" comment was Get a grip, which rocky has already stated is not him self on several occasions.

    There needs to be a boundary and i would much rather discuss different dance ideas than who said what but this is not an environment which is conducive for me to do so.

    It is the beginners and the newbie’s who will be the force to change modern jive the likes of:
    Dan Baines (hip hop), Yuko (cheer leading), Phil Webb (Ball room), Kate Hargreaves (ballet, tango) and Amir (tango)

    are all those that have made dramatic changes to modern jive when they started and it will be other new dancers who will change it again.

    If the forum was a good place to be they would be here.

    the forum is a great place to talk but why bother if you get harassment, if we eliminate it through mutual consent even respect then maybe they would.

    Br
    S
    Last edited by Lory; 14th-July-2009 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #142
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think the Moderators have taken all their responsibility away. Like it or not, you're Supernanny, and we expect you to put him on the naughty step while you're here.
    You say that but yesterday, I had 3 pm's (amongst others) all saying competely conflicting things...

    One stating that 'we' should ban a certain member and moderate more stringently

    the next saying that, we 'over-moderate' and we should treat people as adults on here and respect the intelligence of people to understand, the motives behind posters... concluding that if we give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves!

    And the last one - praising and congratulating our level headedness, under fire! and saying 'keep up the good work'


    The only other one that should be kept in mind is "attack the argument, not the person". We need the passion of heated debates - but not at the cost of personal attacks on people. And there have been too many of those lately.


    My personal feeling is, some people have become disliked on a personal level on this forum and the disliker's (can't think of a better word, so I made one up) have the inability (or the stubbornness) to separate 'the post' from 'the person'



    I disagree - you have to stand up to them.
    Stand up to them, yes.

    Not be intimidated by them.. yes

    Argue vehemently to put your side across - yes

    Stalk, nit pick and try to trip them at every corner, to score points - no

    Antagonise and goad them into biting and saying something which in turn, will no doubt gather the other 'troops' of dislikers, no
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  3. #143
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
    "The Sky is blue and any one that says otherwise is a numpty!"
    I think you are being generous there Beo, it's more like;

    "The Sky is blue and any one that says otherwise is...

    1. A sad twat who spends too much time on the forum and should get a life...I mean, C'mon! 6 posts per day? Saddo!
    2. Is a thanks/rep tart and is just saying something to please the masses.
    3. Is too thick/fat/boring/stupid to have an opinion.

    THAT'S why people don't post opinions against the bullys.

  4. #144
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Oh, get a grip some of you.
    I think that's what we've done. It's certainly what I've done. As far as this forum was concerned I was in a place I no longer enjoyed, I tried to stop the changes I didn't like. So did others. The nasty people continued to post and get away with it. Why would I stay?

    Speaking for myself and nobody else, I don't need to come here. It used to be fun and I enjoyed the frivilous banter. And I used to share experience and knowledge with other dance teachers. This probably benefitted people learning to dance. I know I learnt a lot in the process.

    Nowadays people do not seem to post anything technical about dance. And neither would I - I've taught thousands of dance lessons, been in the finals of every jive competition in the UK, have won quite a few medals, am a qualified dance teacher and mostly know what I'm doing. I don't need people who know less than me telling me that I'm wrong, especially when it's done in nasty, spiteful ways. On the other hand, I'm delighted when people who know more than me tell me that I'm wrong and enlighten me in an adult fashion - it's how we all learn and grow.

    As far as I can see, the trolls have taken over and no longer lie in wait under bridges. From my point of view this forum is now a land where trolls roam free and nice people hide under bridges.

    So yes, I "got a grip" and joined David Bailey.

  5. #145
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The trolls have taken over and no longer lie in wait under bridges. This forum is now a land where trolls roam free and nice people hide under bridges.

  6. #146
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    My personal feeling is, some people have become disliked on a personal level on this forum and the disliker's (can't think of a better word, so I made one up) have the inability (or the stubbornness) to separate 'the post' from 'the person'


    Antagonise and goad them into biting and saying something which in turn, will no doubt gather the other 'troops' of dislikers, no
    Guilty as charged. (that's the nearest I could get to a 'hands up' smiley)
    I'm going to promise to try harder, to not bait but ignore Rocky, in the future.
    Anyone else want to admit their guilt or is it just me?

  7. #147
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    Anyone else want to admit their guilt or is it just me?
    Just you , you broke the forum.

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    The perment nature of the forum makes me not post for two reasons.

    1) Because If you say somthing stupid it's there forever.

    2) Most threads and topics have been done before.

    I mean someone litterally has to think up a 'new' question.

  9. #149
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    2) Most threads and topics have been done before.

    I mean someone litterally has to think up a 'new' question.


    Is there anything new to say about MJ? Actually, that could be a whole new thread in itself!

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    The perment nature of the forum makes me not post for two reasons.

    1) Because If you say somthing stupid it's there forever.

    2) Most threads and topics have been done before.

    I mean someone litterally has to think up a 'new' question.
    Not just because people give you grief about your spelling then?

  11. #151
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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    RobD beat me to it really … (Edit - oops, having now read RobD's post - I need to say that the bit I agreed with was the 'get a grip' & David Bailey not being bullied off. Rob's comments about Rocky & Fletch, for example, are completely his own & not shared by me.)

    But, Jesus … I'm beginning to think that I've been reading a different forum to everybody else for the last several years. I'm stunned that we've had 7-odd pages of people complaining about bullying, aggression, intimidation, etc.

    Honestly, I don't see it. Ok, I know the important thing is how an individual 'perceives' a post; but, seriously, I can't understand why we take things to heart so much (and I'm thinner-skinned than anyone I know).

    'David Bailey being bullied off the forum'?? I really don't think so - he's made of sterner stuff than that. And people being too scared to post - honestly???

    Yes, of course there are people who are more outrageous, and who deliberately post to cause debate and controversy. I admit, I enjoy the controversial threads as much as I enjoy the luvvie ones - they're often the first ones I read.

    But the only reason these threads get so inflamed, is because we react to them so vehemently. If we really don't like them, why don't we just ignore them?

    To look at Beo's excellent example:

    Lets take two utterly fictitious forumites.. lets call them .. oh "Ricky" and "the Deadly Sloth"

    Ricky posts something quite acceptable fact wise but perhaps in a slightly aggressive tone. for example

    "The Sky is blue and any one that says otherwise is a numpty!"

    the Deadly Sloth then immediately retaliates with an equally correct response but seemingly designed to one up Ricky's post and take up a counter-view.

    "aha! but the sky isn't blue! it only SEEMS to be blue due to light refracting though the atmosphere! Aha ! Touché!"

    then it starts..

    "so you're saying when I look at the sky I'm not seeing blue? surely all colour is to do with the scattering/reflection/absorption of light ? Next you'll be telling me rainbows aren't rainbow coloured.."

    round and round and round ever accelerating, each poster taking an opposing side to the other one and drawing more and more people into the argument.
    So … we have 2 characters here who love debate and are posting because they enjoy the intellectual point scoring. Where's the problem in this? Problems only arise because people who say that they hate debate and controversy decide they are also going to get involved. Debate turns into argument purely because people bite back - what do you expect?

    How much mileage do you think there would be in these debates if they were just ignored?

    Perhaps I'm being simplistic, I don't know. Perhaps people would say, well it's different if it's you who's being called a big-arsed, self-opinionated, crap-dancing, egotistical tart … Perhaps I really don't know how I'd react if that was publically said about me.

    But I hope that I wouldn't feel like I had to defend myself on a forum. Hopefully, if I'm decent in the 'real world', my actions would persuade enough people to think reasonably of me. And if someone was superficial enough to judge me by what they read about me on a forum, then I don't think I'd stand a chance of winning them over whatever I did.

    Anyway … to get back to the original topic and be (uncharacterisitically) controversial myself … I do think there is a slight element of truth in Gus' post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Simple view - the 'old guard' who actually knew about dance, got replaced by people who think they know about dance. Net result is a dance Forum with increasingly less informed opinions on dance. IMHO
    Personally, I miss contributions from the likes of David Barker & Franck. Thank goodness we've still got Amir!

    Rachel
    Last edited by Rachel; 14th-July-2009 at 02:34 PM. Reason: I only said that cos I'm scared of Rocky & Fletch ....

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Just you , you broke the forum.
    Seems that way.

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    Thank goodness we've still got Amir!
    Who?

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    Personally, I miss contributions from the likes of David Barker & Franck. Thank goodness we've still got Amir!

    Rachel
    David will be upset, he only posted here this morning.
    I love Amir's posts, they never fail to amuse me.

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    So … we have 2 characters here who love debate and are posting because they enjoy the intellectual point scoring. Where's the problem in this? Problems only arise because people who say that they hate debate and controversy decide they are also going to get involved. Debate turns into argument purely because people bite back - what do you expect?

    How much mileage do you think there would be in these debates if they were just ignored?
    Personally, I just find it boring. It’s just the same old arguments over and over again ad infinitum, from the same people. The format is usually that a discussion starts up and people give opinions and it’s all fairly light hearted and polite. Then Rocky wades in*, and whatever he says gets someone riled and off they go. I usually look at the first page or two of this, and then get fed up and wander off elsewhere as I’ve seen it all before

    *I should point out that there are occasions when I actually agree with what Rocky says at the start, or at least find it informative. (Nice comfy fence this )

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Personally, I just find it boring. It’s just the same old arguments over and over again ad infinitum, from the same people. The format is usually that a discussion starts up and people give opinions and it’s all fairly light hearted and polite. Then Rocky wades in*, and whatever he says gets someone riled and off they go. I usually look at the first page or two of this, and then get fed up and wander off elsewhere as I’ve seen it all before
    But that's not really a problem, is it? You do what I do when I find something boring - just don't read it. The problems only come when people get themselves involved and get more and more worked up ... but then complain about it.

    Actually, though, I enjoy spectating these kind of threads - the 'Ooh, how's he going to come back from that one' kind of thing.
    R.

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    But that's not really a problem, is it? You do what I do when I find something boring - just don't read it. The problems only come when people get themselves involved and get more and more worked up ... but then complain about it.

    Actually, though, I enjoy spectating these kind of threads - the 'Ooh, how's he going to come back from that one' kind of thing.
    R.
    I think it’s stifled more wide ranging debate though. Once a thread goes into meltdown, anyone who posts something can get it in the neck. And don’t think that is discouraging people from posting generally. What’s the point?

    It’s not the only issue of course – as I said earlier, simply finding new things to discuss is a bit of a challenge too.

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post

    But, Jesus … I'm beginning to think that I've been reading a different forum to everybody else for the last several years. I'm stunned that we've had 7-odd pages of people complaining about bullying, aggression, intimidation, etc.

    Honestly, I don't see it. Ok, Rachel
    That's because the worst of it happens in private messages which we are then not allowed to put to the forum.

    Also i don't think you or Mark have been a point of contention, I hope you manage to stay that way and be blissful in your peace.

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    2) Most threads and topics have been done before.

    I mean someone litterally has to think up a 'new' question.
    Actually, I used to get annoyed at the same old questions being asked. Then I stopped getting annoyed because I could see this day coming. I just checked the Beginner's Corner and, to be honest, there's bugger all happening there.

    I'd suggest this isn't healthy.

    This forum is a veritable goldmine. There is a lot of good stuff, buried deep in it, but you have to do a lot of sifting to find it. I've often wondered whether the idea of rating threads was possible, rather than just pinning them - that way very good threads would be more likely to stay alive. See, we're now also getting to the stage where my constant criticism of the vBulletin search facilities is justified - being able to find the good stuff from long ago is a right PITA.

    Suggestion to those who care: go away and find a good thread from the old days and "bump" it*. Preferably from the dance threads, but I'm sure there's many others worth the effort. I'm sure there will be new things to say, and highlighting the "golden" threads for any newcomers hanging around will be no bad thing.


    *Note to mods: yes, bumping is not allowed under the rules, but I'm not really advocating "bumping" in the generally understood sense, just looking to resurrect debates still worth having.

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    Re: Who Killed The Ceroc Scotland Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon r View Post
    That's because the worst of it happens in private messages which we are then not allowed to put to the forum.
    Then don't read them ...

    I know, I know, me in my blissful ignorance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    I think it’s stifled more wide ranging debate though. Once a thread goes into meltdown, anyone who posts something can get it in the neck. And don’t think that is discouraging people from posting generally. What’s the point?
    Perhaps that would be an interesting - anonymous - poll: who would actually like to post something, but is too scared of 'getting it in the neck' to do so?

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