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Thread: How safe is your child?

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    How safe is your child?

    I have heard a number of ads on the local radio for a 'disclosure pilot' being run by Cambs Police (and 3 other forces)

    http://www.cambs.police.uk/help/disclosurepilot/

    The ads have made me quite uneasy about the whole project though I can't put my finger on exactly why? Yes, child safety is important but the methods of ensuring it also need to be balanced against the rights of adults IMO and this strikes me as assuming a default position of every man is a potential sex offender.

    What's your view on this scheme?

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I have heard a number of ads on the local radio for a 'disclosure pilot' being run by Cambs Police (and 3 other forces)

    http://www.cambs.police.uk/help/disclosurepilot/

    The ads have made me quite uneasy about the whole project though I can't put my finger on exactly why? Yes, child safety is important but the methods of ensuring it also need to be balanced against the rights of adults IMO and this strikes me as assuming a default position of every man is a potential sex offender.

    What's your view on this scheme?
    I'm not sure what your concern is here Rob.
    Having only read the link you supplied, I can't see why you'd think there was a default position of every man is a potential sex offender. It's up to an individual to register a concern and there is any genuine reason for concern, only the child's guardian is informed.
    I could contact the police about you, but if you're not on the register, it all stops there doesn't it?

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post

    to be balanced against the rights of adults IMO and this strikes me as assuming a default position of every man is a potential sex offender.
    Can I remind you that the most recent sexual abuse case involved a female. So really, you should have said the "default position of everybody".

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    What's your view on this scheme?
    Well, in principle theres nothing wrong with requesting information from the police when that is the only way you would find out if someone has a relevant criminal record. But of course such a scheme is likely to increase the paranoia surrounding working with children and is only ever going to be negative overall - i.e. if you like working with children but dislike the fact you will distrusted until a check - it may put you off. Of course "if you have nothing to hide" etc...may be an argument for this sort of thing, but the uneasy feeling that you are being checked up on is an intrusion too far for some people.

    Rather more worrying is exactly what information is passed back to the requester, if it is the so called "soft data", people could be denied work for no good reason. For those that haven't read about it, "soft data" is data included that is not criminal e.g. recently a headteacher lost his job because of an unsubstantiated allegation from a pupil that was recorded. There was no evidence that it wasn't entirely made up and the police dismissed it entirely. If it IS only criminal data then perhaps that's fair enough, but what are the guidelines for what is relevant to your criminal check - could you be given the all clear to employ a convicted burglar with no previous sex crime history? or would the police "warn you" of the burglars history anyway, thus denying him work and a chance to leave criminality and try honest work? and which is worse?

    Perhaps a more sensible solution is one already in use. The person who wants to work with children gets their own check. Recently i was at a kids party and the entertainer had "disclosure scotland certified" on his business card, which is something that can then be checked by parents to give them piece of mind. It's not intrusive when considered that way round.

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    As a single parent and someone who uses a registered (married) child minder I can see the logic of this scheme.

    For example...my childminder may have her procedures and back ground checked over with a fine toothed combe, but her husband could be a convicted peodaphile and I would never know. I'm sure there are times when she has been cooking dinner or doing something upstairs where, if he wanted to, he could interfere with my kids.

    Also, you hear so many horror stories about peodaphiles who target single mothers and enter into relationships with them, just to get colse to the children. If you had concerns in either of these instances, the scheme would at least rule out any previous convictions.

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    As a single parent and someone who uses a registered (married) child minder I can see the logic of this scheme.

    For example...my childminder may have her procedures and back ground checked over with a fine toothed combe, but her husband could be a convicted peodaphile and I would never know. I'm sure there are times when she has been cooking dinner or doing something upstairs where, if he wanted to, he could interfere with my kids.
    I'm not sure of the procedures in England, but my aunt is a registered childminder. This meant that not just her but everyone in the house over a certain age also underwent disclosure scotland checks; when my cousin reached the age of sixteen, she had to have a disclosure too, despite my aunt having been registered for several years by then.

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by firefly View Post
    I'm not sure of the procedures in England, but my aunt is a registered childminder. This meant that not just her but everyone in the house over a certain age also underwent disclosure scotland checks; when my cousin reached the age of sixteen, she had to have a disclosure too, despite my aunt having been registered for several years by then.
    That's interesting to know. Maybe they've changed the rules since I last looked. It certainly makes sense to vet everyone living in the house.

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    That's interesting to know. Maybe they've changed the rules since I last looked. It certainly makes sense to vet everyone living in the house.
    It also seems quite unfair to ruin the parents career or opportunities if their 16 year old had a cannabis conviction or some such. Especially if the teenager isn't around during daycare hours anyway.

    A few years ago there was an outcry in New Zealand when it became apparent that Air New Zealand policy was not to sit unaccompanied children next to single men on flights. Clearly single men are all potential sex offenders after all, while married ones are perfectly safe. A woman would of any relationship status is fine of course, but as gay marriages weren’t legal at the time this meant that every gay man was a threat to children. As you can imagine, the assumption that every one of these men was a vile pedophile upset a few people.

    Imagine if every Arab was assumed to be a terrorist unless they had documentation (which probably cost them money to get) to show that they weren’t……. doesn’t really seem reasonable when you look at the situation in that light does it?

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    It also seems quite unfair to ruin the parents career or opportunities if their 16 year old had a cannabis conviction or some such. Especially if the teenager isn't around during daycare hours anyway.
    Well, in my case my childminder looks after my children after school, not during the day so if she had a teenager who was smoking drugs presumably he would be around at the same time. It might be unfair for the childminder to have her career ruined, but I couldn't give a shlt. My kids safety is more important and I pay a fortune for my children to be cared for in a safe and happy environment. She is my employee and I expect her to stick to her end of the bargain.


    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    A few years ago there was an outcry in New Zealand when it became apparent that Air New Zealand policy was not to sit unaccompanied children next to single men on flights. Clearly single men are all potential sex offenders after all, while married ones are perfectly safe. A woman would of any relationship status is fine of course, but as gay marriages weren’t legal at the time this meant that every gay man was a threat to children. As you can imagine, the assumption that every one of these men was a vile pedophile upset a few people.
    That is clearly ridiculous! You can't discriminate against types of men based on their marital status or sexual preference.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Imagine if every Arab was assumed to be a terrorist unless they had documentation (which probably cost them money to get) to show that they weren’t……. doesn’t really seem reasonable when you look at the situation in that light does it?

    Oh I dunno...they all look a bit shady to me. Best to lock them all up, just in case.

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    Re: How safe is your child?


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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    Too soon?
    much

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Well, in my case my childminder looks after my children after school, not during the day so if she had a teenager who was smoking drugs presumably he would be around at the same time.
    It was a hypothetical situation to show what effect “guilt” by association can have.

    It might be unfair for the childminder to have her career ruined, but I couldn't give a shlt.
    Law has to be made with everybody's rights in mind. Not just yours. Thankfully.

    My kids safety is more important and I pay a fortune for my children to be cared for in a safe and happy environment. She is my employee and I expect her to stick to her end of the bargain.
    Except we’re not talking about a bargain between you and your employee. We’re talking about a much blunter and wider reaching “solution” than that, and one that nobody in the childcare industry has a choice in. That isn’t a bargain.
    Last edited by NZ Monkey; 25th-June-2009 at 11:59 PM. Reason: Grammar

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Law has to be made with everybody's rights in mind. Not just yours. Thankfully.
    That's right! I am, of course, bias to my own situation, as most people would be and in my situation the law doesn't come it to it (hypothetically speaking, with your hypothetical drug taking teenager), because I can just find someone more suitable, regardless of the law. Thankfully.

    Right, I'm off to bed. night night

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Imagine if every Arab was assumed to be a terrorist unless they had documentation (which probably cost them money to get) to show that they weren’t…….
    A recent National Geographic discussed the millions of Arab Christians becoming increasingly marginalised in their own homelands - egypt,lebanon, jordan etc...and the assumptions they have to put up with, one man who moved to the US, upon saying he was a christian, got a response along the lines of "your family must have been really angry with you" Sigh!

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Law has to be made with everybody's rights in mind. Not just yours. Thankfully.
    Indeed. She'd have all men in remote controlled elektro-shock collars. Hey, hows that working for you Gav ?

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    Re: How safe is your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Indeed. She'd have all men in remote controlled elektro-shock collars. Hey, hows that working for you Gav ?
    It's the perfect solution to keep the imperfect male sex under control.

    Please don't shock me again, I said the right thing

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