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Thread: Extraordinary Political Times

  1. #21
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    BUT, in order to benefit from the minimum wage. maternity/paternity leave and to be protected by health and safety legislation, you need to be employed in the first place
    ..but if your job wrecks your health or if you are labouring hard for a pitance - these are the things unions have fought against.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feelingpink View Post
    Disagree there. While I'm all for having more kindness in the world, I would rather have a very clever and visionary PM than someone who people call 'sweet' or 'lovely' and who says 'whoops, sorry' a lot.
    This isn't what I meant. I meant -
    a leader with independent thought, as opposed to being locked into the US world view.

    A leader with a moral compass pointing the way to a fair society.

    Margaret Thatcher virtually destroyed society, and it was intentional.

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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartak Lad View Post
    Sir Alan Sugar for PM to get us through these "difficult times"
    No we need Jeremy Clarkson

    I can just picture him driving to Buck Palace to in a lamborghini gallardo

  3. #23
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    A leader with a moral compass pointing the way to a fair society.
    That'll be why the UK is the top police state in the western world and business leaders get paid huge bonuses despite heavy losses and/or bankruptcy. Fair ? Is this fair as in "fun fair" i.e. we are being taken for a ride ?


    Margaret Thatcher virtually destroyed society, and it was intentional.
    riiiiiight - thats why i live in a diseased shanty town controlled by the warlord of the week. This week its Mr.Albatross - he used to be an accountant you know. Viscious bastard.

  4. #24
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post


    riiiiiight - thats why i live in a diseased shanty town controlled by the warlord of the week. This week its Mr.Albatross - he used to be an accountant you know. Viscious bastard.
    Obviously not, but I feel her policies encouraged greed and to some part a disintegration of community and left a more divided nation

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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    Obviously not, but I feel her policies encouraged greed and to some part a disintegration of community and left a more divided nation
    well said. In the main though, i would say that some of the changes/mistakes made in the 80's have not been reversed to this day - and we can't blame Maggie for that. Saying she "virtually destroyed society" is ridiculous and simply misdirection.

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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    That'll be why the UK is the top police state in the western world and business leaders get paid huge bonuses despite heavy losses and/or bankruptcy. Fair ? Is this fair as in "fun fair" i.e. we are being taken for a ride ?
    The Law Lords have ruled that parts of the terriorist law breach human rights.

    The BBC will not be paying silly money to entertainers anymore.


    riiiiiight - thats why i live in a diseased shanty town controlled by the warlord of the week. This week its Mr.Albatross - he used to be an accountant you know. Viscious bastard.
    Some live on ghetto estates controlled by drug warlords and money lender sharks.

    In Scotland, where you live, DS, are there not a lot of housing schemes way out miles from town, with one bus a day, and one corner shop charging silly money for a loaf of bread?

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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    well said. In the main though, i would say that some of the changes/mistakes made in the 80's have not been reversed to this day - and we can't blame Maggie for that. Saying she "virtually destroyed society" is ridiculous and simply misdirection.
    Again obviously she did not destroy society but the ethos of the egocentric attitude that market forces encouraged and the worshiping of wealth above achievement IMHO is to the detriment of society, but you are right when you say this government did not do enough to reverse this though I do feel they made some significant improvements as I mentioned in an earlier post

  8. #28
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post

    riiiiiight - thats why i live in a diseased shanty town controlled by the warlord of the week. This week its Mr.Albatross - he used to be an accountant you know. Viscious bastard.
    Wellll no. of course we don't, and nor do most of the Western world.

    However:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thatcher
    I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand "I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or "I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations...
    And where, there is nothing particularly sinister in these words per se, squaring that against the decimation of the coal industry .... how can a man look after himself (let alone family or neighbours) when there is no work in an area?? Does everyone mass migrate away?? leaving ghost villages?

    Not that I'm behind the unions either; although the statue outside the TUC apparently (I've not seen it live) shows one work man reaching down to another to help them to their feet ... they just seem to be a fighting force against whoever threatens them. It's all about the power hungry, regardless of anything else.

    However, simply just pulling the rug from under an industry does seem unnecessarily destructive. Some of these old mining villages are a poor reflection of their previous selves. And how far thinking is it to respect our manufacturing base and skills so poorly?

    Sadly it seems that communities have and are continuing to just faded away.

    The local pub is now boarded up, with big 'superpubs' making the running. Breweries aren't even breweries any more!! [For the most part] They are simply property companies, trying to squeeze tenant landlords of any profit they make.

    The baker, grocer, greengrocer, butcher, is replaced by the faceless supermarket.

    And as Philsmove implies, we now live in a world small businesses struggle with red tape and disproportionate charges, and big business rules. I wonder if these big supermarkets pay the same rate, per square foot, as do the smaller shops? They certainly have the size and structure to deal with all the legislation.

    Does all this make for a 'better' society? Yes, sure ... it is more comfortable, and less painless, but at what cost? We can live longer and safer .... but necessarily more fulfilled?

    Maggie had no time for society, sadly, although she seems to have supported 'community' in word, in deed, I believe that her actions have lead to its disintegration.

  9. #29
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    I'm not entirely sure how U come to the conclusion Maggie had no time for society, when the quotation U have posted tells us:

    1) We have a responsiblility to ourselves
    2) We have a responsibility to our neighbours
    3) Life is reciprocal
    4) We are too concerned with our entitlements and not our obligations

    The manner in which the quote comes across to me is that we should be more concerned with our obligations and not just of our entitlements.

  10. #30
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    She fell and broke her arm this morning. news.bbc.co.uk

    Her ambulance had a police escort and she still needs her special branch protection detail.

    btw, this week was the 30th anniversary of her becoming PM in 1979. And it was celebrated.
    Last edited by DavidY; 13th-June-2009 at 07:17 AM. Reason: Fixed link

  11. #31
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    I'm not entirely sure how U come to the conclusion Maggie had no time for society, when the quotation U have posted tells us:
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    ... although she seems to have supported 'community' in word, in deed, I believe that her actions have lead to its disintegration.
    Say one thing, do another? Is that not the perspective/angle that I'm painting?

  12. #32
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    Re: Extraordinary Political Times

    What she is saying in that quote is -

    All the rights that society has won after fighting WW2 - the cradle to grave care - she is going to try and destroy.

    This is because of her penny pinching grocer's shop finance mentality.


    NHS - closed hospitals especially cottage hospitals and hospices

    Welfare - lots of grants either scrapped or turned into loans to be paid back.

    school children's milk - scrapped

    railways - MT hated taking the train - spent the transport budget on building roads, for more cars and carbon emissions.

    buses - "anyone over 25 using a bus is a loser - MT quote". ran down the bus services. cut off whole communities.

    care - became "care in the community" - ask your relatives to look after you, otherwise live on the streets.

    council (social) housing - everyone must get a mortgage. no new builds in this sector.

    unions - powers nuetured


    Her "society statement" twisted it to say that people must not rely on the government, but on themselves - "I'm all right Jack" mentality.

    When really is was to gain more power for the government, and "save Money"

    The Conservative Party always has a "so called" non interventional policy, but they interfere in people's lives just as much as the Labour.

    I'm not saying Labour hasn't chipped away at out "hard won human rights too", but MT was the first to start dismantling everything that Atlee and Bevan set up.
    .
    Last edited by Astro; 15th-June-2009 at 01:19 PM.

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