Refusals - A spin off from the Cerocport review thread

[Trouble]

I did see this happening on sunday afternoon. A forumite actually.

He refused a request for a dance then got up no more than 30 seconds later when a hardly dressed young lady asked the same question.

Disgusting behaviour one would think BUT and here is the big BUT....

I dont think this guy did it on purpose, i think he would be mortified if he realised the upset he could have caused and i do think that us women do tend to think more about it than men do.

We automatically assume or think that there has to be a reason behind the refusal, ie: too fat, too thin, not a good dancer, smelly armpits, doesn't like dancing with me etc etc... where as a man will think at the time of being asked....

err, no i want a drink.

Then when he has had a gulp and is asked by somebody else he will think, err, yeah i'll dance with ya.

Simply, we are made different. Dont take refusals personally, its more often nothing more than generics.

[LuLu Baby]

But this does illustrate something about asking – why don’t people read body language better?

“if the woman is sitting out, looking at the floor, drinking, fanning herself, not watching the dancers and not making eye contact with anyone, chances are she’s on a break and you’d be better off waiting a track before you ask her to dance”. And similar but opposite instructions to the women saying that if they spend their whole time avoiding eye contact and staring at the floor, the men will think they are on a break and not ask them to dance! Might save a lot of confusion…

Could not agree more Twirly! Very very very rarely do I ever turn down a dance, regardless of how tired I am, or how sore my feet are etc... I will always do my best to dance with anyone who asks me. Although it does pi55 me off at times when I am clearly taking a break, and trying to make it look as obvious as I can... and I still get asked to dance. 9 out of the 10 times I will still be polite about it and get up and dance. But the dance will not be as good as it could have been with a little bit more rest...

If I do refuse, then there is a very good reason for it. And it is nothing to do with how attractive a person is/isn't, or how good a dancer they are etc. I will dance with everyone... If I was to refuse, I would do my best to ask them again at some point when I've finished taking a break.

Also, I sometimes enjoy just sitting watching everyone dancing - it's such a lovely atmosphere. I get lost in my own little world watching everyone dancing But I feel sometimes I can't do that, as people think I want to dance... I don't know what is best to do in that situation. But I wouldn't turn someone down if they asked me while I was watching everyone else dancing...

I guess it just comes down to politeness, and how you handle the situation. I don't think there is anything wrong in saying no to a dance, if there is a good reason for it. And you can go and ask them at a later point... But I think it's just down to how it is handled.

[Gary]

It's probably more hurtful if you get rejected by someone you consider a poor dancer!
...

Not for me: I'm very thick-skinned when new girls turn me down, but a little hurt when groovy dancers turn me down (then go dance with someone else to the same song).

[kps]

I actually did refuse a few people this weekend mainly because I was either very tired, It was hot during the day and just had a couple of dances and need to cool down or because I was watching someone on the dance floor.

[Magic Hans]

...
As an aside... Do people really turn other dancers down on aesthetics?!?!!? Man, I thought we'd gotten past this
...

With respect, I detect some sense of:
a) denial
b) holier than thou
c) politically correct or idealist 'niceness'

The physical appearance is aesthetic. Right?
Physical appearance is associated with sexuality, especially in conjunction with partner dancing. Right?
We are (most of us .... certainly me, and I would strongly hazard a guess, you) amongst other things, sexual beings. Right?

If all the above hold logical sense, then, surely, our behaviour and decision making is (at least in some way) affected by aesthetics? No?

For some ... this may be primary (and maybe that is the source of your exasperation). For others, it may have less of an influence on our decision making).

Other elements, of course, also come into those decisions:
sense of decency,
liking of the track,
familiarity and previous dance history of asker.

I can certainly imagine how my sense of expectation might differ between:
a) an 'almost stalker' + average/mediocre dancing history + unimaginative boring track + bad mood from a crap day and
b) an angelic vision + almost hypnotic/dreamy dance history + Wowing fab track + best day of my life.

Can you??

[Of course, I am totally exaggerating for effect .... but isn't the point made a good one?? .... Unless, of course, you're DTS .......... who's selflessness would outshine any mere messiah's in the vicinity]

[CJ]

With respect, I detect some sense of:
a) denial
b) holier than thou
c) politically correct or idealist 'niceness'

With respect, it wouldn't be the first time your powers of detection have let you down in terms of accuracy and what I may or may not be thinking.

I would never turn down a prospective dance partner because she looked like a sack o' tatties, had dysmorphia, was a virgin or completely asexual. (as a long haired skirt wearer, I'm hardly in the position to be judging anyone on their looks) That's an utterly ridiculous thing to even pass through your head.

My expectations of a dance with a curvacious 30 something in a nice dress would differ from my expectations of a frumpy 40 something or a dressed up to the nines skimpily dressed 20 something in impractical shoes...

I don't remember mentioning expectations. I was talking about refusing a dance with someone purely on aesthetics.

I appreciate you were exaggerating but no. Your point wasn't a good one. In fact, I'm struggling to see the relevance to the words you quoted...

[geoff332]

I rarely find it's that easy or that black and white. To assume that my decision whether or not to dance with someone is based on a single factor is simply wrong. It could be something about me, about them, or about the environment. And the three all interact. If someone I either don't know or don't enjoy dancing with asks me when I'm tired then I'm likely to say no. If someone I really want to dance with asks me a little later, I might say yes (especially if it's a track that I think I can dance well with that person). This probably makes me a bad person in some people's eyes; fortunately, I'm OK with this.

Which leads me to the second point. If I ask someone and they say no, I can have a bunch of reactions. One of them could be, "what've I done wrong?" Another could be, "who else can I dance with?" The point is, my reaction is my problem (and, in a sense, my choice), not theirs. If someone refuses me repeatedly, I'll eventually stop asking them (if they're rude about it, 'eventually' can happen after 'once').

There's never an excuse for rudeness or arrogance about refusals; that's a very different thing. But I can only be responsible for me; my actions and reactions. For me to be happy with myself, I need to be reasonable, polite and friendly. I personally don't like judging people on their looks so if I do so, that's a problem for me. But if I don't go out of my way to upset someone by refusing a dance, yet they are inadvertently and unintentionally upset by my actions, then it's not really my fault. I'm not cold or uncaring, but I can't be blamed for their reaction.

[Cruella]

It would be interesting to see if more men do the refusing or more women. I suspect it is the former as they are usually the ones with less time to rest. Which also IMO means that the refusers are also more likely to be the better dancers as they would be the ones asked more frequently.

[Magic Hans]

...
The point is, my reaction is my problem (and, in a sense, my choice), not theirs.
...

...
For me to be happy with myself, I need to be reasonable, polite and friendly. I personally don't like judging people on their looks so if I do so, that's a problem for me. But if I don't go out of my way to upset someone by refusing a dance, yet they are inadvertently and unintentionally upset by my actions, then it's not really my fault. I'm not cold or uncaring, but I can't be blamed for their reaction.

Absolutely spot on and very astute, and, if I might say so, pragmatic and quite frankly 'human'.

It's so easy to say how we might want to be, and how we should be.

Bit more difficult to be that ideology personified.

I'm say that I'm the same, almost to the letter.

[Magic Hans]

...
That's an utterly ridiculous thing to even pass through your head.
...

Hmmm ... guess I'm uttterly ridiculous then!

Whether pragmatic or not.

Perfectly happy to be wrong tho!!

[Double Trouble]

Dont take refusals personally, its more often nothing more than generics.

What?

Sorry to be picky but that doesn't even make sense...did you mean to write generics?

genetics?
genitals?
generalisation?
gollox?

[Magic Hans]

What?

Sorry to be picky but that doesn't even make sense...did you mean to write generics?

genetics?
genitals?
generalisation?
gollox?

Lol!!

Or the druid in Asterix?? Wassissname ... errrrr .... Geriatrix?

[kps]

Lol!!

Or the druid in Asterix?? Wassissname ... errrrr .... Geriatrix?

Oh the potion making Druid Getafix.

[ant]

Originally Posted by geoff332
...
The point is, my reaction is my problem (and, in a sense, my choice), not theirs.
...

...
For me to be happy with myself, I need to be reasonable, polite and friendly. I personally don't like judging people on their looks so if I do so, that's a problem for me. But if I don't go out of my way to upset someone by refusing a dance, yet they are inadvertently and unintentionally upset by my actions, then it's not really my fault. I'm not cold or uncaring, but I can't be blamed for their reaction.

Originally Posted by Magic Hans


Absolutely spot on and very astute, and, if I might say so, pragmatic and quite frankly 'human'

.


I would love to be handle a refusal the way geoff 322 describes but I don't think it is "human". I suspect if you are totally confident in yourself and in full control of your emotions that manner of handling a refusal is possible. However I think most humans have emotions that creep up on them, well at least I do and those emotions in some way dictate the way they feel whether they like it or not. For some people whatever the reason, although I suspect self confidence and self esteem come into it, they do internalise the the hurt a rejection engenders inside them and it is this that I think is "human".

I would say that any "partner" dancer should have empaphy with their partner and I think with the dance population they associate with. I don't believe that empaphy can be switched on and off like a switch. Therefore I think all of us have a responsibility to limit any refusals to a minimum and then only for a good reason. I would go even further and say that this could only be done if refusal is made as politely as possible, the person making the refusal should be aware of the possible hurt they are giving the person being refused and ensure they do not dance with someone else at least for the track that they made the refusal on.

[ant]

It would be interesting to see if more men do the refusing or more women. I suspect it is the former as they are usually the ones with less time to rest. Which also IMO means that the refusers are also more likely to be the better dancers as they would be the ones asked more frequently.

From my own personal experience based purely on situations where I do not know other dancers at a venue, I think that at a regualr freestlye more women than men refuse but at a weekender it may well be the other way round, for the reasons you suggest.

My theory, for what it is worth, is that at regular freestyles women are worried about yanking etc but at a weekender they feel a lot more confident that this will not happen.

[Magic Hans]

I would love to be handle a refusal the way geoff 322 describes but I don't think it is "human". I suspect if you are totally confident in yourself and in full control of your emotions that manner of handling a refusal is possible. However I think most humans have emotions that creep up on them, well at least I do and those emotions in some way dictate the way they feel whether they like it or not. For some people whatever the reason, although I suspect self confidence and self esteem come into it, they do internalise the the hurt a rejection engenders inside them and it is this that I think is "human".

I would say that any "partner" dancer should have empathy with their partner and I think with the dance population they associate with. I don't believe that empathy can be switched on and off like a switch. Therefore I think all of us have a responsibility to limit any refusals to a minimum and then only for a good reason. I would go even further and say that this could only be done if refusal is made as politely as possible, the person making the refusal should be aware of the possible hurt they are giving the person being refused and ensure they do not dance with someone else at least for the track that they made the refusal on.

My apology if I've not been clear about my point, which was that, as Geoff322 implied, my reactions and responses are my responsibility, and no one else's, and so it is unreasonable to me to blame anyone else, thought I might want to.

Sorry to say that I don't seem to have quoted any about any reactions to refusal as your use of my quoted 'human' seems to imply. I agree that it is very easy to take it personally, as any rejection. I also note that very few that I have met (including myself) seem to deal with any sort of feedback, positive or negative, particularly well. Is that innately 'nature'? or nuture?

[Batgirl]

As someone who turned down at least 5 dances (though I swear Mr Pants only asked me cos he saw I had my shoes off), I managed to get back to them all bar 2: said Mr Pants and another girl who asked me at the same time...

... Those failures aside, I managed to come back to everyone else I turned down.

You refused me a dance this weekend and never came back to ask me

Rachel
x

[CJ]

You refused me a dance this weekend and never came back to ask me

Rachel
x

Ouch.

Good point. However, as I made my way back to the dancing room, U were telling me U were working and not dancing....

[Batgirl]

Ouch.

Good point. However, as I made my way back to the dancing room, U were telling me U were working and not dancing....

You missed your chance of a dance by leaving it till 3am on Monday morning then

Next time xxxx

Rachel
x

[Agente Secreto]

I did see this happening on sunday afternoon. A forumite actually.

He refused a request for a dance then got up no more than 30 seconds later when a hardly dressed young lady asked the same question.

Disgusting behaviour one would think BUT and here is the big BUT....

I dont think this guy did it on purpose, i think he would be mortified if he realised the upset he could have caused and i do think that us women do tend to think more about it than men do.

We automatically assume or think that there has to be a reason behind the refusal, ie: too fat, too thin, not a good dancer, smelly armpits, doesn't like dancing with me etc etc... where as a man will think at the time of being asked....

err, no i want a drink.

Then when he has had a gulp and is asked by somebody else he will think, err, yeah i'll dance with ya.

Simply, we are made different. Dont take refusals personally, its more often nothing more than generics.

A good post, and generally I agree. At the last Skeggy though I saw one guy refuse a slightly more rotund lady only to jump up immediately when the PYT came along 30 seconds later. Sure enough, over the course of the afternoon he did this many times. So some of us guys might just be a little thoughtless but some are still clearly arses that are full of themselves

I've never been refused yet by a lady - but I'm sure that this will happen someday since I'm neither young nor pretty. Probably wouldn't bother me personally too much - but then I am pretty thick-skinned.