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Thread: Competitions - close hold or open?

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    Competitions - close hold or open?

    Just wondered what other forumites' views are on the positioning of couples at the beginning of a track as part of competitions? I've noticed that in ballroom & latin, the couples very rarely start in a close hold, or indeed, in contact at all. Whereas in MJ and WCS, couples invariably start in a close hold.

    So really, I was wondering why this is? I have a vague hunch that the idea of starting in a close hold or at least in hand to hand contact demonstrates connection from the very beginning, but I'd be interested to hear anyone else's point of view.

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    Re: Competitions - close hold or open?

    starting in a position different from anyone else makes you more noticeable to the judges, but people generally start in a close handed hold because it feels natural and they didnt consider anything else. Of course being noticeable before you start is only useful if you then hold the judges attention a bit longer when you do start

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    Re: Competitions - close hold or open?

    One thing I vaguely remember from ballroom competitions is that you're judged from the moment the judges see you. That means how you walk on the floor, how you stand, how you take your starting position, what that position is, and what you do when you start all affects the judge's judgement.

    And when it comes to the psychology of judgement, there tends to be a big halo effect. That is, the judge forms an overall opinion of you and that will determine their judgement of any specific details (ie how they score you on specific criteria). And this process is strongly biased by the initial perception. So if they form a negative opinion early, then you lose points throughout the competition; you will have to do something radical to shift that base opinion (the old thing about you get the job in the first 30 seconds of an interview; the psychology is a little more complex and less strict).

    Put this all together and it makes sense to set the tone you want for your dancing from the moment you step into view. That includes your starting position and your first sequence of moves.

    As far as the closed hold showing better connection... it's easier to maintain connection in a closed hold but any good dancer can maintain (and demonstrate) connection through any physical connection; some would argue you can do it through eye contact. If you're not touching (or even looking at one another) then the opening move must be choreographed to some extent.

    I suspect the reason is more to do with norms of behaviour than anything else.

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    Re: Competitions - close hold or open?

    There is one big difference between starting a ballroom/latin track in a competition, and starting a MJ track - you know what the music will be.

    In a 5 dance ballroom competition, you always start with a Waltz, followed by Tango, Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot and finishing with Quickstep. Similarly in Latin you do Cha Cha, Samba, Rumba, Paso Doble and finish with Jive. You also know that each track will be within a narrow tempo range, and won't have any unusual intros, breaks etc. You might not know the actual track, but that doesn't really matter. (Musical interpretation in ballroom is far more about dancing to the style and character of the music, rather than the structure of the individual track.) As a result you can choreograph your start with a very high probability that it will be suitable.

    In MJ you can get anything from slow blues to RnB to house to latin to swing. I've seen competition tracks at 105bpm and 185 bpm. There is also a lot more emphasis placed on dancing to that particular track. If you have no idea what the music is going to be, then how can you decide in advance how you are going to dance it.

    I prefer to see couples start with some sort of connection, listen to the intro, get into the mood of the track, and then start dancing.

    If I see an obviously choreographed start, then I don't automatically mark that couple down. You can still do the same sequence of moves, but reflect the character of the track in the way you perform them.

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    Re: Competitions - close hold or open?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB View Post
    There is one big difference between starting a ballroom/latin track in a competition, and starting a MJ track - you know what the music will be.

    In a 5 dance ballroom competition, you always start with a Waltz, followed by Tango, Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot and finishing with Quickstep. Similarly in Latin you do Cha Cha, Samba, Rumba, Paso Doble and finish with Jive. You also know that each track will be within a narrow tempo range, and won't have any unusual intros, breaks etc. You might not know the actual track, but that doesn't really matter. (Musical interpretation in ballroom is far more about dancing to the style and character of the music, rather than the structure of the individual track.) As a result you can choreograph your start with a very high probability that it will be suitable.

    In MJ you can get anything from slow blues to RnB to house to latin to swing. I've seen competition tracks at 105bpm and 185 bpm. There is also a lot more emphasis placed on dancing to that particular track. If you have no idea what the music is going to be, then how can you decide in advance how you are going to dance it.

    I prefer to see couples start with some sort of connection, listen to the intro, get into the mood of the track, and then start dancing.

    If I see an obviously choreographed start, then I don't automatically mark that couple down. You can still do the same sequence of moves, but reflect the character of the track in the way you perform them.
    Cheers David, thanks for shedding some more light on this.

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    Re: Competitions - close hold or open?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsichorea View Post
    Just wondered what other forumites' views are on the positioning of couples at the beginning of a track as part of competitions? I've noticed that in ballroom & latin, the couples very rarely start in a close hold, or indeed, in contact at all. Whereas in MJ and WCS, couples invariably start in a close hold.

    So really, I was wondering why this is? I have a vague hunch that the idea of starting in a close hold or at least in hand to hand contact demonstrates connection from the very beginning, but I'd be interested to hear anyone else's point of view.
    I think it depends on the category. For a busy round in a category I would suggest an open hold to establish your dance space better. One challenge you face is that other competitors can start too close, impeded your dance and ruining your chances.

    Steve

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