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Thread: Riddle me this!

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    Riddle me this!

    I have to aim to run at least 1.5 Miles in 10 minutes which is about 2.7Km. I tried running last night on a treadmill, I set it to a fast-ish sustainable speed but I managed, 1.13Km in 10 mins so I have a LONG way to go.

    What would be an effective way to increase my speed and samina? do I just keep runnig for 10 minutes at a time, or run for longer (say 3-4 miles) at fast-ish sustainable speed? Any pointers/Hints/tips accepted.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Riddle me this!

    I think you'd be better off asking on a running forum. As you say, you obviously need to improve both speed and endurance; classically, people work up their endurance and then work on their speed. But you have so much work to do on both that I'm not sure if you would be better putting in at least some fairly specific speed work from the start.

    From my limited experience (and from about 15 years ago), 1.5 miles in 10 minutes is a pretty tough target. Although never a serious runner, I once did 9 miles at about 9 minutes a mile, and when out jogging, I'd only get overtaken once in a blue moon - happened about twice in 2 years (*). But when I tried doing a timed mile on a track, I couldn't beat 6:40 (exactly what you need to do for a mile and a half in 10 minutes), and I was absolutely shattered at the end of it. By normal standards, that pace is fast running - it's faster than most people could "run for a bus", I would say.

    How long have you got to reach the target? How old are you? And what's your current fitness regime?

    (*) I'm not trying to "big-up" myself - I knew lots of runners who could leave me in the dust, including people who didn't particularly rate themselves. Just trying to put into perspective how big the gap is between the average jogger you see on the streets and an proper competitive runner.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    Thank you David Franklin, I know you arent trying to 'big-up' yourself.

    I'll look out for running forums, I have let myself go since 4th year at uni where my fitness was pretty good.

    I have just started getting into the training regieme (I still need to make one up). Last night was at the gym doing my ususal routine (weight training) and then did a run for 10 mins last night to see how I am. I will be dropping some weights and going to the tread mills and doing burst sprints for a lenth of time, so many for so long and then a pro longed runfor x minutes. and do that 3 times.
    Another one will be tonight, running as fast as I can up a hill with 8 kilos in a back pack and walking down, do this for about 30 mins and then go for a 3-4 mile run with the weight.
    I was considering running and pushing myself faster and faster till I hit my goal, I have to achieve the 6 minute mile.

    I am 25 and I have to do this by September, I think.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    6.6 minute a mile for 1.5 miles is your target (or 3.7 mins per Km). Your current performance is 8.85 mins per Km and there is a question about your endurance to sustain your required pace right up to the end of your target time.

    You will need to work on your speed and endurance and most importantly your ability to judge and maintain an even pace throughout your run. Going too fast at the start is a sure way to throw away any gains as you walk the last Km. Get a sport watch and ensure you have even split times. Train yourself to judge your own pace. Run your own race not that of the person in front.

    Begin all training sessions with at least 2km or running at about 70% of your intended race pace. The first few miles of running are uncomfortable because your body is shifting its blood and oxygen supply away from your digestive system towards your large motor muscles. This is why your legs feel heavy at the start and you can feel sick if you have eaten too close to your training session.

    Endurance. Run at below (about 75%) your race pace (whatever that happens to be at the current state of your ability) for at least 50% more than you target distance at least once a week. If you can, push up to race pace in the last Km.

    Hills are your friend for leg power and stressing your cardiovascular systems. Find an incline that will take you 40 seconds to run up. Run your 2km to it. Blat up the hill as hard as you can and then jog back down it at a pace that you would go towards your own execution at and then a further 200m. Turn around and jog back to the start point and then blat up the hill again., Repeat six times. Jog the Km back home. Only do this once a week.

    Speed. This is about power to weight ratio and your ability to supply the fuel at a fast enough rate. If you have any weight to lose then this would be a good time although you should plan the end of any weight lose regime to coincide with the day of your ultimate challenge. Carrying some pounds around in training can be thought of as increasing your training effectiveness but too agressive a weight loss could leave you too weak for the intensity of training you will do.

    The power aspect you are working on through the hill training and general gym work and long runs. To be able to sustain a higher speed for long periods you need to get your body used to supplying the oxygen and blood at high rates over shorter but repeated efforts. Try intervel running and speed play running.

    Intervals. After your warm up run try one of the following. Run hard (above race pace) for a certain distance (icrease the distance slightly each week), jog back to the start. Repeat at least 10 times (you will know when you have done enough - your legs feel like jelly and your arms feel numb as the blood supply is diverted from them to your legs). Jog back home.

    Speed play. have sections of a course which are different lengths. Alternate running fast and jogging slow between the sections. Sometimes you will have short running sections with a long rest section inbetween The worst one is long sections with a short rest between.

    Your key to training is to be able to sustain your training without it being interupted by an injury. Visit a specialist running shoe shop and have your running style analysed and a pair of shoes for your running style chosen. This will require at least 30mins of individual attention and very probably you running across a pressure sensitive plate. If you don't get this service then go somewhere else. They are your feet and knees and you will be needing them for quite a while. If you do pick up an injury then seek proper advice. The pain is a sign that something is wrong and running through it is a good way to make it a permanent feature of your life.


    I have long thought that the key point of training is for one to discover how much discomfort one can sustain safe in the knowledge that you would not REALLY die.

    Good luck with your challenge.

    Just seen your last post clueless. you seem to have the right idea. Never did understand treadmills though - the scenery never changes.
    Last edited by Chef; 29th-May-2009 at 11:57 AM.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    An 'average' athlete should be able to reach a 5 minute 1500m (slightly less than a mile) without too much difficulty.
    As a licensed Athletics coach, I could give you all kinds of advice, but without knowing you and testing your current capability, build etc, it wouldn't be as effective as it could be.
    I would suggest that you go to your local Athletics club and speak to the coaches. They should be able to help you prepare a training plan tailored specifically to you, rather than just general good, well-meant advice.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    Gav is absolutely correct. The advice of a qualified coach that is able to meet you and devise a training program specifically for you is what you need.

    My comments were general and based upon my own training regime back in the 12 years when running was my main hobby. As with everything, knowledge moves on and methods change and I am now 10 years out of touch. I only achieved 6 mins 5 secs for a mile, 69 mins for 10 miles and 3 hrs 33mins for my best marathon. If an average athlete can now manage a 5 min 1500m with todays training methods who knows what I could have achieved if I had known then what coaches know now.

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    Papa Smurf
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    Re: Riddle me this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
    I am 25 and I have to do this by September, I think.
    I can only talk from my own experience - when i was in my mid 20's, my fitness was pretty good. My "regime" consisted of kick boxing at least twice a week - which always included a good circuit session (sit ups, press ups, pad work etc...no weights at all) and a 2 hour football session every Sunday. I never did any "proper" running at all, but had to run a mile when i tried to get into the Police Force (very narrowly failed to get in too, just as well )- I ran the mile in 5 mins 38 secs. I can put this down to a good general level of fitness and the fact that I ran 5 yards behind the front 2 clearly practiced runners and absolutely refused to let them pull away from me. So my advice would be lots of circuits without weights and/or football and to use a partner/pace setter for all your exercise if at all possible.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Gav is absolutely correct. The advice of a qualified coach that is able to meet you and devise a training program specifically for you is what you need.

    My comments were general and based upon my own training regime back in the 12 years when running was my main hobby. As with everything, knowledge moves on and methods change and I am now 10 years out of touch. I only achieved 6 mins 5 secs for a mile, 69 mins for 10 miles and 3 hrs 33mins for my best marathon. If an average athlete can now manage a 5 min 1500m with todays training methods who knows what I could have achieved if I had known then what coaches know now.
    I wasn't trying to belittle your advice, none of it is incorrect. I was just suggesting an alternative.
    Also, when I say an average athlete, I mean an athlete that trains at least 4 times a week and specialises in 1500m (poss. 800m too). If you're running marathons, you'll be unlikely to ever get 5 minutes or less for a mile.
    I got mine down to 4:15ish before I joined the Army. Then 10 mile marches with huge packs on put paid to any hopes I had of maintaining it.

    BTW, whatever you choose to do, avoid static stretching before you run. Do dynamic stretching (side-stepping arm-waving, long strides etc) before the run and static stretching (toe-touching, knee-hugging etc) after the run.
    The reasons for this are:
    1. Static stretching before your muscles are warm is more likely to tear them.
    2. Static stretching temporarily reduces the elasticity of your joints and muscles, leading to as much as a 10% reduction in performance.

    Hope that helps.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I can only talk from my own experience - when i was in my mid 20's, my fitness was pretty good. My "regime" consisted of kick boxing at least twice a week - which always included a good circuit session (sit ups, press ups, pad work etc...no weights at all) and a 2 hour football session every Sunday. I never did any "proper" running at all, but had to run a mile when i tried to get into the Police Force (very narrowly failed to get in too, just as well )- I ran the mile in 5 mins 38 secs. I can put this down to a good general level of fitness and the fact that I ran 5 yards behind the front 2 clearly practiced runners and absolutely refused to let them pull away from me. So my advice would be lots of circuits without weights and/or football and to use a partner/pace setter for all your exercise if at all possible.
    you narrowly failed with 5.38 what was the entrance time? This is for AIB training for the Royal Navy. UI will be doing some running tonight from my flat to the southern part of that beach front along the northern part of the beach front and back via the same route clicky

    Thanks all for the advice
    Last edited by Clueless; 29th-May-2009 at 02:27 PM.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I wasn't trying to belittle your advice, none of it is incorrect. I was just suggesting an alternative.
    Also, when I say an average athlete, I mean an athlete that trains at least 4 times a week and specialises in 1500m (poss. 800m too). If you're running marathons, you'll be unlikely to ever get 5 minutes or less for a mile.
    I got mine down to 4:15ish before I joined the Army. Then 10 mile marches with huge packs on put paid to any hopes I had of maintaining it.

    I know you weren't trying to belittle my advice. I was trying to belittle my own advice. It was geared towards my needs as a distance runner (the shortest I would ever do was 10km). The needs of cluesless are very different where he needs much more speed, and maintained over a shorter distance than I would consider as a warm up before a marathon. His needs are very specific and I agree he needs specific advice to get from where he is to where he wants to be while not falling foul of an injury (recovery from which would seriously eat into what little time he has).

    Good luck clueless.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    thanks again everyone the adice is greatly appreciated and I do have a running club nearby that I know of and if I ahve a chat with the coach I will hopefully reach my goal.

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    Re: Riddle me this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
    you narrowly failed with 5.38 what was the entrance time?
    For this particular police force, you get 9 interview tests throughout a day, the fitness test is just one of them and I passed it easily. You were only allowed to fail 1 out of the 9 tests and I failed 2 of them (and I disagreed with one of those fails too, but hey, i have a better career now anyway ).

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