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Thread: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

  1. #21
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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Quote:
    It is named the ray Of bolger, after Colonel lindbergyu's's flight through atlantic. This rocking had as very "to obtain into air" as as far as possible. However, furiously acrobatic type utilized for the exhibitions not the same by what is quiet rhythmic Lindy she took pleasure by good dancers in field ballroom. Rhythmic pictures assume the place above 2 measurements of notes. More acrobatic versions were limited to ballrooms the most known was savoy Harlem N6h Iorka. NOTE: In at one time Jitterbug included charleston, the black bottom, shag and hop Lindy. It now was consolidated into hop Lindy in the East USA and on the western free flight the western rocking of free flight.
    I've been saying that for years!

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    So, by my IML analogy, can we now all conclude that Lindy is a subset of MJ...?
    According to the last survey, only 3.1% of the monkeys believed so.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Fun aside, can I bump my edited original question?

    Anyone got links to any good definitions for WCS and Lindy?

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    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Sound familiar? (I confess, part of the reason I asked for definitions was to see which of them had the same "we can't define it, we can only define what it isn't" problem).
    When you’re talking about an improvisational dance I don’t think you can avoid that problem, which is probably why strict definitions for many dances don’t seem to be floating around. This is particularly true if the culture of the dance encourages evolution.

    Rather, I think the more important question is one of scope. WCS is a swing dance, and so the general definitions of swing apply. It also has specific requirements such as the anchor step and the slot, which effect other aspects of the dance as well. As far as I know that’s about it.

    Technique is a slightly different issue I think, and many of the comparisons I see between MJ and WCS really seem to boil down to differences in (or the existence of ) technique. One thing that irks me though is the insistence that MJ is a swing dance in the first place. It certainly doesn’t adhere to:
    Quote Originally Posted by NASDE
    Swing Content Definition
    To identify the presence of swing the judges will use the following USA NASDE ‘Statement of Swing’.

    Swing is an American Rhythm Dance based on a foundation of 6-beat and 8-beat patterns that incorporate a wide variety of rhythms built on 2-beat single, delayed, double, triple, and blank rhythm units. The 6-beat patterns include, but are not limited to, passes, underarm turns, push-breaks, open-to-closed, and closed-to-open position patterns. The 8-beat patterns include, but are not limited to, whips, swing-outs, Lindy circles, and shag pivots. Although they are not part of the foundation of the dance as stated above, 2-beat and 4-beat extension rhythm breaks may be incorporated to extend a pattern, to phrase the music, and/or to accent breaks.
    In fact, I suspect that if one were to enter any MJ competition and immediately start dancing something with a foundation of 6-beat and 8-beat patterns that incorporate a wide variety of rhythms built on 2-beat single, delayed, double, triple, and blank rhythm units they’d be disqualified. Double, single and blank rhythms are common in MJ, but delayed and triple rhythms as NASDE define them are very unusual in my experience.

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    Ceroc N.I. Franchise Owner drathzel's Avatar
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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Actually i did not "scream" (i was very nice about it) about the triple steps, it was the 15 WCS patterns in a row!

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by drathzel View Post
    Actually i did not "scream" (i was very nice about it) about the triple steps, it was the 15 WCS patterns in a row!

    Danielle honey! patterns don`t define WCS, If i dance the same pattern with MJ timing then it becomes a MJ move surely?? if i dance in and extend it with WCS timing then it becomes WCS....but this is in fact the grey area i`m talking about.....i`d anticipate people watching saying....oh they are dancing WCS just because the patterns look familiar but the things that define WCS in simple terms are the distinctive triple step rhythm and 6 and 8 count patterns, so it`s the rhythm and timing that define it not the movements!

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    ok then it was the 15 wcs moves danced with wcs timing in a row!

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    WCS is a swing dance, and so the general definitions of swing apply.
    Which are?

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    ... In fact, I suspect that if one were to enter any MJ competition and immediately start dancing something with a foundation of 6-beat and 8-beat patterns that incorporate a wide variety of rhythms built on 2-beat single, delayed, double, triple, and blank rhythm units they’d be disqualified. Double, single and blank rhythms are common in MJ, but delayed and triple rhythms as NASDE define them are very unusual in my experience.
    I go back to the Le Jive Modern Jive championships, and there was certainly lindy on show, but I would not expert enough to say if they used delayed or triple rhythms. It was the scope of the dance I saw that is responsible for my enthusiasm.

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I go back to the Le Jive Modern Jive championships, and there was certainly lindy on show, but I would not expert enough to say if they used delayed or triple rhythms. It was the scope of the dance I saw that is responsible for my enthusiasm.
    1998, yes? The couple who came second in the showcase did a straight Lindy routine, fairly heavy (iirc) on the Charleston elements. I'm having trouble equating the 'official' definitions of single, delayed etc with my own footwork repertoire, so I'll settle for saying that their footwork was pure Lindy & Charleston.

    There were a few other couples I noticed incorporating Lindy elements in various ways, probably most notably in the Advanced (or whatever they called it) final... but that was being danced to a 200bpm track (Resurrection Shuffle), and it's quite ... interesting ... dancing standard MJ at that tempo. So it's fairly understandable that they'd have needed to call on other skills to cope (or do what the winners did, which was cop out, dance much of it at half-tempo, and spend far too much of the track just clowning around ).

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    1998, yes? The couple who came second in the showcase did a straight Lindy routine, fairly heavy (iirc) on the Charleston elements. I'm having trouble equating the 'official' definitions of single, delayed etc with my own footwork repertoire, so I'll settle for saying that their footwork was pure Lindy & Charleston.

    There were a few other couples I noticed incorporating Lindy elements in various ways, probably most notably in the Advanced (or whatever they called it) final... but that was being danced to a 200bpm track (Resurrection Shuffle), and it's quite ... interesting ... dancing standard MJ at that tempo. So it's fairly understandable that they'd have needed to call on other skills to cope (or do what the winners did, which was cop out, dance much of it at half-tempo, and spend far too much of the track just clowning around ).
    I believe the winning lead was of the opinion, after the semifinal, that "we're being danced off the floor". He suggested dropping the clowning for the final, but partner persuaded him that they had come so far with it that they might as well see it through to the end.

    It was very entertaining clowning, and anybody knowing me would not be surprised I liked it.

    The Lindy couple were superb, in my view, and she was distraught afterwards. I am afraid I could no better than tell them so and add the cliched "there were no losers out there".

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I believe the winning lead was of the opinion, after the semifinal, that "we're being danced off the floor". He suggested dropping the clowning for the final, but partner persuaded him that they had come so far with it that they might as well see it through to the end.

    It was very entertaining clowning, and anybody knowing me would not be surprised I liked it.
    Entertaining, yes. My own feeling though was that the lead was correct, and at least one of the other couples consistently blew them out of the water ... but the judges elected not to take that view.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    The Lindy couple were superb, in my view, and she was distraught afterwards. I am afraid I could no better than tell them so and add the cliched "there were no losers out there".
    They were indeed - by a strange coincidence, I watched some of the video of the event a month or so back, and they were both excellent.

    The showcase must've been a nightmare to judge. You had Nigel & Nina doing their speciality - an imaginative, smooth, beautiful routine. Then there was the outstanding Lindy pair, and then, David & Lily doing their speciality of jaw-dropping aerials the likes of which most of us had never seen before (well - I hadn't, anyway).

    Three completely different, and amazing performances, with very little 'standard' MJ to be seen.

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Which are?
    Swing Content Definition
    To identify the presence of swing the judges will use the following USA NASDE ‘Statement of Swing’.

    Swing is an American Rhythm Dance based on a foundation of 6-beat and 8-beat patterns that incorporate a wide variety of rhythms built on 2-beat single, delayed, double, triple, and blank rhythm units. The 6-beat patterns include, but are not limited to, passes, underarm turns, push-breaks, open-to-closed, and closed-to-open position patterns. The 8-beat patterns include, but are not limited to, whips, swing-outs, Lindy circles, and shag pivots. Although they are not part of the foundation of the dance as stated above, 2-beat and 4-beat extension rhythm breaks may be incorporated to extend a pattern, to phrase the music, and/or to accent breaks.
    Which is a pretty loose definition, but it has to be to incorporate a whole family of dances with a wide range of aesthetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    I go back to the Le Jive Modern Jive championships
    Was that really 1998? That's more than a decade ago now, and things have moved on I think.

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    Re: Dancing WCS or Latin in a MJ comp....

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    ... Was that really 1998? That's more than a decade ago now, and things have moved on I think.


    but IMO those championships were one of the things that helped move them on. Along with the weekenders they brought together some of the best and some of the keenest. It mixed the gene pool. Compared to my previous MJ experience it was like being introduced to cinemascope.

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