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Thread: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

  1. #121
    The Dashing Moderator
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    homotripudiophobia
    Which means?
    Love dance, will travel

  2. #122
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Which means?
    Fear of same sex dancing, of course.

  3. #123
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Sorry to bump an old thread, but saw a discussion on Yehoodi with what seems a very relevant post from a teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouth from Yehoodi
    I think more than anything it really all depends on the teacher and how they handle it. If I have a leader who wants to come to my beginner class to better his leading, I take a minute to announce that to the class. I might even frame it as a bonus for the students. "Hey look this more advanced leader will be rotating through with you beginner leaders and he can probably even give you a helpful hint or two about how to better your leading" (assuming he's someone I trust to give advice of course).

    I find that if I explain he's a higher level dancer trying to grow as a dancer by learning the other role, it immediately breaks down any hesitation most of the men might have. I take it completely out of any sexual context and put it in a pure learning one. But if I don't say anything, totally different vibe. My saying something gives guys in the room permission to feel comfortable, or conversely shames those who don't in to participating because to not do so after I've made a class wide announcement would draw negative attention to them.

    Since I've been making this announcement (both in SF and NYC) I've never had a problem. But prior to, there have been some weird reactions.

  4. #124
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Sorry to bump an old thread, but saw a discussion on Yehoodi with what seems a very relevant post from a teacher
    People are more wiling to accept something if the majority and authority back it. often it is not the feeling that is changed, but the ability to express it. The usual way of finding the real reaction is to see how many come back.

    I do not think I would be entirely happy going to beginner class to help train teachers.

  5. #125
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    People are more wiling to accept something if the majority and authority back it. often it is not the feeling that is changed, but the ability to express it. The usual way of finding the real reaction is to see how many come back.

    I do not think I would be entirely happy going to beginner class to help train teachers.
    Perhaps, but I’ve experienced the opposite living (briefly) in Japan. Many of the things I ended up doing there would have seemed very strange at home, but because all of the locals were very comfortable with them I felt comfortable as well.

    When I was hiking through Nepal I found that native male friends would often walk with their pinky fingers hooked together. Surprisingly enough – this didn’t seem unusual at that time and place.

    A lot depends on context, and in my experience that having that context made clear can make a very big difference to perceptions.

  6. #126
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    ... A lot depends on context, and in my experience that having that context made clear can make a very big difference to perceptions.
    and that, IMO, is the essence of MJ. On the dance floor we behave in ways that would be frowned upon outside the room. For me we are engaged in three minute dramas, acting out this and that.
    I, in sequential three minute bursts I can do my best to be an artist, comedian, counsellor, teacher, athlete, friend, performer ...
    Reality and imagination mix, it never tastes the same way twice, but is always appetising.

    Ceroc Buckingam have a theme night once a month. The next one is "Double Trouble". Obviously for the class to work there has to be a large excess of women, whereas the theme will attract men. I am sugesting that the night makes a special effort to attract female leaders, perhaps offering a brief reprise of the class for female leaders and perhaps male followers.

    Comments on that?

  7. #127
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Interesting. It is also quite possible that once the behaviour is socially sanctioned by the teacher and appears to be acceptable behaviour by the rest of the class, even those who may have thought they would feel uncomfortable dancing with the same gender may find it less upsetting than they thought they would. Experience can alter our perception of an activity.

  8. #128
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Interesting. It is also quite possible that once the behaviour is socially sanctioned by the teacher and appears to be acceptable behaviour by the rest of the class, even those who may have thought they would feel uncomfortable dancing with the same gender may find it less upsetting than they thought they would. Experience can alter our perception of an activity.
    We are all eperienced follows being "discouraged to lead"
    Most people, in activities where they lack experience and expertise, are followers. Many of us, at some stage of our lives, goto the beach with apprehensions about exposing more of our bodies than we are used to. After a day or two we figure out where our comfort zone is, and it is a lot further out than day one. If there are ladies topless others are more likely to wear a bikini.

    "Are we human, or are we dancer?" Pushing the boundaries

    Some of the most valuable people in a dance class are those that push the boundaries. They make others inside those boundaries more comfortable outside of their normal real-world zone. In the dance hall, even as amatuers, we can enjoy some of the freedom of spirit that comes fro being "Dancer".

  9. #129
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    Re: Experienced Follow being discouraged to Lead

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Ceroc Buckingam have a theme night once a month. The next one is "Double Trouble". Obviously for the class to work there has to be a large excess of women, whereas the theme will attract men. I am sugesting that the night makes a special effort to attract female leaders, perhaps offering a brief reprise of the class for female leaders and perhaps male followers.

    Comments on that?
    Not really.

    My gut feeling is that it'd be unlikely to be a major drawcard for the men to be honest, but then I don't know anything about Ceroc Buckingam and it's punters. I doubt it'd get much attention if the same were tried in Auckland anyway.

    Good luck though!

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