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Thread: A place for paedophiles

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    A place for paedophiles

    Louis Theroux - otherwise known as Mr personality went to visit the inmates of Coalinga (something disturbing about that name) which is a place for paedophiles to go when they have finished their sentances.

    Out of the hundreds that pass through only 13 have been released into the outside world and the rest know that they will be there a long long time unless they can prove that they will not re-offend.

    Not one of the few shown in yesterdays documentary convinced me that he had changed and could control his urges. Even one of them went down the route of being castrated and i didn't feel he was convincing on what he would do and not do if he got out.

    So is this problem curable. I conclude it is not.

    So whats the answer... surely its not that we have to spends thousands and thousands keeping these horrific men in comfort in this warehouse of freaks forever and a day

    I personally would shoot the lot of them, slowly and starting at the crotch.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    I didn't see this, but i'm inclined to agree with you.

    Someone's natural sexual desire surely can't be changed.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    I watched the documentary too and one thing struck me - I came to the realisation I've no qualifications in field of psychiatry and that I was watching a documentary.
    Theroux is adept at creating compromising situations and casting his interviewees in a bad light that gives us a feeling of superiority. Its what makes him famous. It was a documentary, not for information - but entertainment, titillation disguised as education (I mean, that bit about the guy's posters on his walls was utterly ridiculous).
    I'll leave the serious conclusions to be made by the professionals charged with their treatment, not Louis Theroux's editing team.

    I don't know what causes paedophilia whether its a fetish or a mental illness so I have no idea how much sympathy/anger they deserve but society doesn't do much to help.
    Seen those Bratz dolls? Britney Spears' first music video was her in a school uniform dancing provocatively, no one batted an eyelid. Children and adults are being encouraged to see the young as sexual objects too - because its profitable. Based only on the general view I get, I'd imagine the paedophilia problem is only going to get worse.

    Oh, and I have no idea what to do with paedophiles. However I don't believe in the death penalty for many reasons. (Forced labour's better anyway)

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Louis Theroux - otherwise known as Mr personality went to visit the inmates of Coalinga (something disturbing about that name) which is a place for paedophiles to go when they have finished their sentances.

    Out of the hundreds that pass through only 13 have been released into the outside world and the rest know that they will be there a long long time unless they can prove that they will not re-offend.

    Not one of the few shown in yesterdays documentary convinced me that he had changed and could control his urges. Even one of them went down the route of being castrated and i didn't feel he was convincing on what he would do and not do if he got out.

    So is this problem curable. I conclude it is not.

    So whats the answer... surely its not that we have to spends thousands and thousands keeping these horrific men in comfort in this warehouse of freaks forever and a day

    I personally would shoot the lot of them, slowly and starting at the crotch.
    I hope you're bringing loads of wine so that we can debate this sensibly on Friday night!! In fact lets not, its too much like work for me to get my head into, but I will read the thread with interest.

    Would like to say though that its not only men who sexually abuse children, women do it too, although the reported incidents are lower, and children do it too. It often is difficult to prove because it doesn't need to be penetrative.

    As for shooting them, that won't solve the problem, no more than the death penalty stopped murders happening.
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Shooting them wont solve it but it would make me feel a whole lot better.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    So is this problem curable. I conclude it is not.

    So whats the answer... surely its not that we have to spends thousands and thousands keeping these horrific men in comfort in this warehouse of freaks forever and a day

    I personally would shoot the lot of them, slowly and starting at the crotch.
    Didn't see the programme, don't know what to do about paedophiles.

    However, I do feel that viciously aggressive attitudes like this one are unlikely to be an answer to anything.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    I didn't see this, but i'm inclined to agree with you.

    Someone's natural sexual desire surely can't be changed.
    I don’t think it is about changing the desire as the aim would be to control the desire and learn not to act out on it. One of the major problems with Paedophiles is their state of denial and that they can often be very devious and convincing.
    .

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    I didn't see the programme so I cannot comment on it. I don't think paedophiles can be "cured" anymore than hetrosexuals or homosexuals can be "cured" of their sexual preferance. All I would ask the reader to do is to think of their own sexual preference, straight, gay or bisexual and try to think back to the point where you made a decision which to be. Did you actually look at all the advantages and disadvantages of each, consider them carefully and then make a decision as to what your own sexual preferance would be?

    When homosexuality was illegal, you could be blackamiled, at the least, or most likely imprisioned with hard labour. It didn't stop people being homosexual. They just kept it secret, which was easy to do if both parties could make an informed consent, were willing, and both did not want their activities to become known.

    However, paedophillia is illegal because it is harmful to at least one of the participants (the child) who is not in a position to make informed consent. it is something that is emotionally or physically forced upon them. This often does immense and lasting emotional and physical damage to them.

    Many peodophiles profess they do it because they "love children" and don't see the harm they are doing - in their minds they are giving pleasure to the people they love. They see their love for children in the same way as a homosexual or homosexual would - with the exception that a child can never give informed consent.

    So I don't think that paedophillia is a concoius choosing of a sexual orientation anymore than homosexuality or hetrosexuality. I also don't think that paedophiles can be "cured" of their orientation anymore than I could be cured of hetrosexuality or the sucess of all the previous "cures" for homosexuality that have been tried over history. Some paedophiles come to understand the harm they have done, and would continue to do, and choose either chemical or surgical castration to control the urges that they can understand, but not control themselves.

    The others who do not, or will not, see the immense harm they are doing will (my own personal opinion here) have to be controlled by either very strict monitoring in the community (and I don't believe that this can ever be water tight and that one victim is too many) or extended imprisionment until age or infirmity removes the desires they have.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Opinion is, I understand, divided amongst those who work with paedophiles. Some think it is treatable and others think that it isn't. For the former, it is agreed that the possibility of treatment is only there for willing 'patients'. Some paedophiles enjoy what they are, and don't want to change. They, of course, cannot be treated.

    Given that America has the largest prison population in the world (yes, larger than China, with four times as many people) I'm not convinced that their penal system is anything to be emulated.

    I've not heard that paedophilia is a 'sexual orientation', like homosexuality, and I'd need to be persuaded of that. I cannot see how sexual attraction to children can have evolved, whereas (e.g.) attraction to males is always present - it's just that it's usually present in females.

    On the other hand, sexual attraction to adolescents is entirely understandable from an evolutionary standpoint. Until ten or twenty thousand years or so it was probably necessary for homo sapiens to begin procreating as soon as the equipment was in working order - wait any longer and it might be too late.

    It's one of the reasons why female makeup tends to emphasis adolescent features - large mouth and eyes, yada yada.

    If there were simple answers, they would have been discovered by now.
    Last edited by Barry Shnikov; 21st-April-2009 at 01:04 AM.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    Many peodophiles profess they do it because they "love children" and don't see the harm they are doing - in their minds they are giving pleasure to the people they love. They see their love for children in the same way as a homosexual or homosexual would
    ...and leading on from this, the children that are being abused are often confused about what is happening to them, because some of the sexual abuse they receive is pleasurable, even though they know it is wrong. (Billy Connelly explains this well when he talks about being sexually abused as a child).

    Children can often feel guilty for actually enjoying the sexual contact with an abuser.

    I don't know what the answer is....enforced labour sounds like a good idea as has already been mentioned. Aren't there drugs you can take to suppress sexual appetite. Didn't they give something to soldiers in their tea to stop them thinking about sex while at war? Maybe that might help.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    I didn't see it, but I've seen plenty of his "documentaries" and they are always biased and edited to make the subject look worse. Not that I object, it's usually quite entertaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    I don't think paedophiles can be "cured" anymore than hetrosexuals or homosexuals can be "cured" of their sexual preferance. All I would ask the reader to do is to think of their own sexual preference, straight, gay or bisexual and try to think back to the point where you made a decision which to be. Did you actually look at all the advantages and disadvantages of each, consider them carefully and then make a decision as to what your own sexual preferance would be?
    I don't know if you're trying to make a point there or if you mean it, but did anyone make a conscious decision about their sexuality? If so, that should mean that paedophilia as a sexual preference is easy to treat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Aren't there drugs you can take to suppress sexual appetite. Didn't they give something to soldiers in their tea to stop them thinking about sex while at war? Maybe that might help.
    Potassium Bromide, I believe. It is a sedative and was used for patients with penis injuries to prevent erections damaging the healing process.
    I don't think the government has ever admitted adding it to the tea of soldiers, but that's another conspiracy theory.
    Mental patients were given gunpowder as a libido suppressant until some bright spark pointed out that the lead in it wasn't good for you.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    So is this problem curable. I conclude it is not.
    It's not a "problem" in Saudi Arabia at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    However, paedophillia is illegal because it is harmful to at least one of the participants (the child) who is not in a position to make informed consent.
    Its not necessarily harmful - paedophillia can mean simply "sexual attraction to children", and if thats all it is, there's no harm. Acting on those impulses is a whole different thing as there is clearly no such thing as "consent" from children in the eyes of both our society and the law. So it is clear that people who act on these impulses have a serious mental issue, they surely know that no consent can be given but think they are special in some way.

    As you suggest though, the word "paedophillia" is mostly associated with the physical act of abuse nowadays - this happens in America among the religous right with "homosexuality", they only ever consider the ACT of gay sex rather than the concept of simple sexual attraction. By doing that though, it means sexual attraction is lumped in with actual physical sexual acts - in the case of children, abuse. This adds to the general social hysteria and leads to paranoia surrounding children, people working with children and knee-jerk reactions. Read any tabloid over the last 15 years for a variety of hysterical stories. My "favourite" was "Priest groomed girl for sex" which was the story of a priest who had known a girl since she was 15 and had sex with her when she was 21. Yes, 21. Clearly a traditional "paedo" story but with no "paedophilia" actually involved. Now consider the Saudia Arabian story above about the 8 year old sold to a new husband in order to satisfy a monetary debt. All legal, socially acceptable and above board. So, things in perspective perhaps ? Should we be worrying more about what people actually do to other people, and less on what they may think about, no matter how distasteful we might find it? I find it hard to believe that people suddenly have illicit thoughts that previous generations did not. Yes, we find the idea that people can be sexually attracted to children most disturbing, but its the actual abuse that is the real problem.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    Didn't see the programme, don't know what to do about paedophiles.

    However, I do feel that viciously aggressive attitudes like this one are unlikely to be an answer to anything.
    No your right but i dont care. I would quite happily and without any remorse torture a peodophile.

    I am very anti child abuse of any form and i can not control my rage at it. This is something that maybe i need help with but i would and have approached people who i feel are being inappropriate to a child, even their own child and i will step in. This has got me into some sticky situations but i can not and will not tolerate it. Not here, not there not anywhere and if somebody comes at me with it in my face i will be aggressive towards it and i dont care who it is.
    Last edited by Trouble; 21st-April-2009 at 12:13 PM.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    It's not a "problem" in Saudi Arabia at all.




    Its not necessarily harmful - paedophillia can mean simply "sexual attraction to children", and if thats all it is, there's no harm. Acting on those impulses is a whole different thing as there is clearly no such thing as "consent" from children in the eyes of both our society and the law. So it is clear that people who act on these impulses have a serious mental issue, they surely know that no consent can be given but think they are special in some way.

    As you suggest though, the word "paedophillia" is mostly associated with the physical act of abuse nowadays - this happens in America among the religous right with "homosexuality", they only ever consider the ACT of gay sex rather than the concept of simple sexual attraction. By doing that though, it means sexual attraction is lumped in with actual physical sexual acts - in the case of children, abuse. This adds to the general social hysteria and leads to paranoia surrounding children, people working with children and knee-jerk reactions. Read any tabloid over the last 15 years for a variety of hysterical stories. My "favourite" was "Priest groomed girl for sex" which was the story of a priest who had known a girl since she was 15 and had sex with her when she was 21. Yes, 21. Clearly a traditional "paedo" story but with no "paedophilia" actually involved. Now consider the Saudia Arabian story above about the 8 year old sold to a new husband in order to satisfy a monetary debt. All legal, socially acceptable and above board. So, things in perspective perhaps ? Should we be worrying more about what people actually do to other people, and less on what they may think about, no matter how distasteful we might find it? I find it hard to believe that people suddenly have illicit thoughts that previous generations did not. Yes, we find the idea that people can be sexually attracted to children most disturbing, but its the actual abuse that is the real problem.
    I believe that sexual attraction to children is wrong, whether it is acted upon or not. We ought not to sexualise children. I agree, society does not help matters, we sexualise our children from a young age. How many clothes are just smaller versions of what mum wears when she goes clubbing? It is inappropriate in my opinion to put children in that position. I equally do not agree that just becasue something is considered 'legal' in a particular society, it is right. I cannot condone in any way the 'selling' of any person, but moreso an 8 year old child in order to satisfy a monetary debt. I rather think that there is something amiss with a society that can. I don't have any children, but I know that if i did, the thought that a grown adult viewed them in a sexual way would turn my stomach. It is not just the 'actual abuse' that is the problem, it is the whole mindset and the notion that viewing a child as a sexual being can be acceptable or excusable in any way. How would you feel if someone had pictures of your child in the same way that people have copies of playboy etc? I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't be so tolerant of the 'thought' and it wouldn't matter if they had touched your child or not..you'd be very angry I'm sure. The 'thought' is illegal too, in this country at least. Hence, people can be prosecuted for having indecent images of children. They may not be carrying out the abuse but they are providing a 'market' for it. They are contributing to it by their thoughts. Thank god we live in a society where the connection between thought and action is recognised, and preventitive methods are used where possible.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    ...and leading on from this, the children that are being abused are often confused about what is happening to them, because some of the sexual abuse they receive is pleasurable, even though they know it is wrong. (Billy Connelly explains this well when he talks about being sexually abused as a child).

    Children can often feel guilty for actually enjoying the sexual contact with an abuser.

    I don't know what the answer is....enforced labour sounds like a good idea as has already been mentioned. Aren't there drugs you can take to suppress sexual appetite. Didn't they give something to soldiers in their tea to stop them thinking about sex while at war? Maybe that might help.
    Children lack the critical reasoning ability to be able to make informed decisions and so they are confused about how they should feel about what is happening to them. It is often this confusion, some feelings of shame and even guilt that they are somehow responsible about what has happened to them that means that abuse can go on for a long time and/or it will be a long time before they come forward and make a complaint.

    The enforced labour is a punishment and satisfies societies desire for retribution. It does not treat the cause of the problem (the persons willingness to act on their sexual desire). A sexual preferance is just that - a preferance. Be it men, women, women with long legs, men with tight butts, big breasts, small breasts, large women, skinny women, animals, bondage. We all know the list goes on and on. Most of us can indulge our preferances because we can find consenting adults who can make informed decisions who will not be harmed emotionally or physically about what we both choose to do.

    Paedophiles (love of children) would be entirely harmless to children if they never chose to act on their desires because they can never do so with someone that can give informed consent or be sufficiently emotionally or physically developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I don't know if you're trying to make a point there or if you mean it, but did anyone make a conscious decision about their sexuality? If so, that should mean that paedophilia as a sexual preference is easy to treat. .
    I don't know of anyone who made a concious decision about their sexual preferances. I am told (by a friend who, for 10 years was a prison officer at Dartmoor, involved in the sexual offenders rehabilitation progam) that paedophiles are just the same. It is just as hard for you (or anyone) to be weaned off your sexual preferances as it would be for them. If you were told that you must never again have physical contact with women and must instead only ever have sex with men then how would you feel? This is why I don't belive that any sexual preferance is EASY to treat. In the case of paedophillia that is acted upon, the harm caused is so great that society must at least try it best. The only other alternative is to lock people up forever in order to protect children. Both options are far from easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Potassium Bromide, I believe. It is a sedative and was used for patients with penis injuries to prevent erections damaging the healing process.
    I don't think the government has ever admitted adding it to the tea of soldiers, but that's another conspiracy theory.
    Mental patients were given gunpowder as a libido suppressant until some bright spark pointed out that the lead in it wasn't good for you.
    There are a number of chemical agents that are used to supress libido and they are popularly refered to as "chemical castration". The problem is that once out in the community how do you ensure that the person continues to take the medication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Its not necessarily harmful - paedophillia can mean simply "sexual attraction to children", and if thats all it is, there's no harm. Acting on those impulses is a whole different thing as there is clearly no such thing as "consent" from children in the eyes of both our society and the law. So it is clear that people who act on these impulses have a serious mental issue, they surely know that no consent can be given but think they are special in some way.

    As you suggest though, the word "paedophillia" is mostly associated with the physical act of abuse nowadays - this happens in America among the religous right with "homosexuality", they only ever consider the ACT of gay sex rather than the concept of simple sexual attraction. By doing that though, it means sexual attraction is lumped in with actual physical sexual acts - in the case of children, abuse. This adds to the general social hysteria and leads to paranoia surrounding children, people working with children and knee-jerk reactions. Read any tabloid over the last 15 years for a variety of hysterical stories. My "favourite" was "Priest groomed girl for sex" which was the story of a priest who had known a girl since she was 15 and had sex with her when she was 21. Yes, 21. Clearly a traditional "paedo" story but with no "paedophilia" actually involved. Now consider the Saudia Arabian story above about the 8 year old sold to a new husband in order to satisfy a monetary debt. All legal, socially acceptable and above board. So, things in perspective perhaps ? Should we be worrying more about what people actually do to other people, and less on what they may think about, no matter how distasteful we might find it? I find it hard to believe that people suddenly have illicit thoughts that previous generations did not. Yes, we find the idea that people can be sexually attracted to children most disturbing, but its the actual abuse that is the real problem.
    I agree with you that the thoughts do no harm but that acts do.

    It is a very emotional subject because it is harming the very group that we are most protective about. We cannot hear about harm to a child without thinking about how we would feel if that was our own child. Emotional responses rarely solve problems.

    I have heard people say that they would like to shoot paedophiles. I have asked them if they really would take the gun themselves and put it to the head of the thousands of paedophiles in this country and pull the trigger and almost all have said no. The one person that said yes was then faced with the question “when you have finished killing the thousands who do you think the monster in our midst would be?” By all means challenge what you think might be inappropriate behaviour towards children (or anyone elsse) but don't let your response degrade yourself.

    I also understand that different areas of the world have different customs to us. In the case of the 8 year old that was sold she neither had the capacity for informed consent nor was consent ever sought. I also understand that other areas of the world have different customs to us. I have heard reports that in some places girls are married off or sold as soon as puberty occurs. Unfortunately the physical rigors of sex and childbirth often leave these underdeveloped girls with permanent physical tearing that requires surgery to correct double incontinence. Often this surgery is not available and their husbands and families abandon them. Children are children no matter where they are in the world. They are neither emotionally or physically developed enough for sex or childbirth no matter what the local custom is. They don’t want to talk about the damage that is done and they live a long way from us.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    I would go for partial lobotomy...remove the area of the brain responsible for sexual urges and physically castrate them also just to be on the safe side. Alternatively, we just keep contributing a portion of our taxes towards prisons especially for them. I'd pay to have these people under lock and key 24 hours a day so that we know where they are. I disagree that these places should be pleasant in any way. They should be a deterrent not a holiday camp.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    The enforced labour is a punishment and satisfies societies desire for retribution. It does not treat the cause of the problem
    Yes, but at least they would be doing something useful with their otherwise pointless existences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haylz View Post
    I disagree that these places should be pleasant in any way. They should be a deterrent not a holiday camp.
    Exactly. At least get them to do laborious but useful work in the community, rather than sitting on their perverted arses watching telly.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    The trouble with having a prison only for paedophiles is that it puts them in close contact with other people of a similar mind. While it is useful to have them in one place to be able perform whatever treatment is thought appropriate, and to be able to not have to worry about protecting them from attacks from other prisoners I can't help thinking it would be a school for paedophiles.

    While getting them to do mindless, tedious or just physically hard work makes us think we are punishing them and getting something useful it gives them time to think about and refine their fantasies. Many of the offenders at Dartmoor wanted to be put on the rock breaking jobs in the quarry (yes it still happens but it is optional and indeed a sought after activity) instead of having to talk about and face up to the harm their sexual preferances, if acted upon, had caused.

    So go ahead, make them do work, 80% would prefer it.

    As a previous poster said - if the solution was easy it would have been done already.

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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Haylz View Post
    We ought not to sexualise children. I agree, society does not help matters, we sexualise our children from a young age.
    We don't really. Thats not something you can do with clothing on its own, and I don't think its a big issue. Most adults on seeing a scantily clad, innapropriately dressed or even naked child would have the same reaction as you; "thats ridiculous", "sexualised too young" etc..., but what we are not doing, is thinking about sex - because normal people do not think about sex with children, they just assume others do, or that others will. And get worried. Wrapping our children in bearskin coats 24/7 will not make the worry go away will it?

    I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't be so tolerant of the 'thought' and it wouldn't matter if they had touched your child or not..you'd be very angry I'm sure.
    Not angry no. Thats your preconception of how you might feel, IF you had children, don't label me with it. I do have children and it would disturb me greatly if I found out about someones sexual attraction to my children, no doubt. But if I got angry about my conclusions on what I think people think, based on the ridiculous notions they express - I'd be constantly angry Where it personally concerns my family it is certainly more emotive, but there are many many things that could be directed at my family that I would not want to have to tolerate and take steps to remedy. Tolerating bizarre, perverted, immoral and illegal thoughts is just something we have to do.

    So how much were you willing to bet ? Please give it all to a childrens charity


    How would you feel if someone had pictures of your child in the same way that people have copies of playboy etc?
    Well that certainly would make me angry, but the taking of such pictures would be a form of abuse in itself - so its not the pictures themselves that are the problem, its the person taking them. I'm not a subscriber to the "photos steal your soul" theory . But, if the pictures are simply nudity, rather than erotically posed in someway - I would be pretty sure that the vast majority of people looking at them would simply see a naked child, not a sexual object. I'm confident paedophilia is not as widespread as the hysterical media would have us believe.


    The 'thought' is illegal too, in this country at least. Hence, people can be prosecuted for having indecent images of children.
    Thoughts are illegal now? When did that happen ? Indecent images of children are illegal all on their own, regardless of what you might think about them

    Nowadays, the internet makes it easier to catch the real criminals behind abuse, there are lots of examples in the last 10 years of "paedo ring" arrests. But I'm not so sure of the usefulness of the heavy sentencing for downloaders of illegal images - it MAY discourage the originators of such images from making them available but what will that do other than make THEM harder to catch ? At the price of a cotton wool society where we have situations of teachers getting sacked because records are kept about any and all untrue allegations against them.
    Last edited by Dreadful Scathe; 21st-April-2009 at 01:47 PM.

  20. #20
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    Re: A place for paedophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    While getting them to do mindless, tedious or just physically hard work makes us think we are punishing them and getting something useful it gives them time to think about and refine their fantasies...So go ahead, make them do work, 80% would prefer it.

    Couldn't they do both? i.e a full time mindless job 9 to 5 then evening classes on how not to be an evil pervert?

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