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  1. #1
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    Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Last night, I came across this on iGoogle news alerter.

    Some 25 years after Blair Peach died from a blow to the back of the head in his own front garden - an incident which led to the disbanding of the SPG but no prosecutions of any policemen - I can't tell you how disappointed I am to find that the police force still includes people who believe that the ordinary rules of society do not apply to them simply because they wear a police uniform.

    It's not clear exactly what did happen to Ian Tomlinson, but it seems clear beyond peradventure that whatever it was, was gratuitous. None of the policemen in the video seem to be under any threat at all; there are hardly any other people near to them; Tomlinson seems to be being less-than-cooperative but he has his back to them and his hands in his pockets.

    Speaking as a lawyer, I cannot see how this can be anything less than common assault on the part of at least one policeman. Common assault leading to death is murder. Obviously, there are evidential issues of establishing whether the heart attack was brought on by the assault, and that would certainly be an important question. But if it were ---

    It will be a mortal shame on our country, on the City of London, and on our government, if we do not, in due course, see that police officer on trial for whatever crime the CPS determines he has committed.

    There's a link - on the page that incorporates the video - to an article by Duncan Campbell, titled "De Menezes taught Met nothing". One of the comments to the article says "On the contrary, de Menezes taught the Met that it can get away with murder." While instinctively I recoil from that statement, it's hard to shake off the feeling that it isn't entirely incorrect.

    I really am quite disheartened. Yet another instance in which I have to face the fact that the progress I thought we were making in our effort to create a civlised society isn't going so well even in my own country.
    Last edited by Barry Shnikov; 8th-April-2009 at 11:04 AM.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Even sadder - I am no longer profoundly disappointed. You are only disappointed when you expect better.

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Even sadder - I am no longer profoundly disappointed. You are only disappointed when you expect better.
    Yes, I'm an incurable optimist. I thinking of having surgery, though.

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Another proud moment for our boys in blue. I have met some lovely coppers and I have met some right sods. the Policeman who assaulted this chap should be charged with assault or even manslaughter. At the very least he should be sacked.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Another proud moment for our boys in blue. I have met some lovely coppers and I have met some right sods. the Policeman who assaulted this chap should be charged with assault or even manslaughter. At the very least he should be sacked.

    DTS XXX XXX
    WOW. Sacked. For an unprovoked attack on an unarmed individual. (At the very least.)

    If, indeed, the incident caused the heart attack (I'm not a medic, but it does seem "reasonable" but beyond reasonable doubt?) which then caused the death of Ian Tomlinson... I would go a long way beyond sacking...

    I almost have Clockwork Orange thinking: make that policeman watch that clip every day he wakes... Force him to watch himself killing an innocent, unarmed guy acting in a non-threatening way... whilst he's eating his porridge of course...

    This country's shame just grows....

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    I am saddened profoundly that this thread fails shamelessly to recognise that 40% of the officers these days are women.

    You have all to a man, ASSUMED it is a male officer... how it saddens me... it may well be a man but why do you assume it so readily.???

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    WOW. Sacked. For an unprovoked attack on an unarmed individual. (At the very least.)...
    I doubt the incident was "unprovoked".

    I suspect most, if not all, of the provocation had come from others. If the victim had been told to move on the moving slowly, with the hands in the pockets, could easily be interpreted as "up yours" body language.

    Like it or not, the officer concerned was working for us. Such protests disrupt the lives of law-abiding citizens and we have the right to go about our lawful business. I suspect most of the protestors were not obeying instructions, and some degee of force had been necessary.

    Havind said that, from what I saw the amount of force used was excessive, and I did not see any justification for even a push. The victim should not have been knocked over.
    Last edited by bigdjiver; 8th-April-2009 at 05:36 PM.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Revisited in the light of the CPS decision today:

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    There's a link - on the page that incorporates the video - to an article by Duncan Campbell, titled "De Menezes taught Met nothing". One of the comments to the article says "On the contrary, de Menezes taught the Met that it can get away with murder."
    It can't be healthy when the standard belief (on both sides of the equation) is that the police will never, ever be prosecuted for events like this.

    If the Raoul Moat facebook page was still up, I bet you'd be seeing a huge surge in members today.

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Revisited in the light of the CPS decision today:
    Which is ?

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Which is ?
    Ian Tomlinson death: police officer will not face criminal charges

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Sadly this leaves people in the clear position of feeling that should they ever find themselves in a situation where they are vulnerable to the police, they must assume their life is in danger and defend themselves accordingly.

    The police had a difficult job before, now they've made it harder for themselves.

    Here's hoping the family bring a private prosecution - there seems sufficient evidence for a jury to convict. Lets see the CPS try taking it over and blocking it on a public interest basis...

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    Re: Profoundly disappointed and sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by cederic View Post
    Here's hoping the family bring a private prosecution - there seems sufficient evidence for a jury to convict. Lets see the CPS try taking it over and blocking it on a public interest basis...
    The family don't have the money for a private prosecution. Even if they did, there'd still be the problem of Dr Patel - who clearly, at best, can't find his backside with both hands, a flashlight and a big sign saying "here's your backside" - giving evidence for the defence and likely raising reasonable doubt for the jury.

    There's no current mechanism for the family to receive justice. Just a faint hope that there may be something at the end of the inquest. But I'm not holding my breath.

    And the CPS can't be blamed for the mistakes of Freddy "blood? I see no blood?" Patel, but I think it should be asked why it did not immediately prosecute PC Harwood for assault - that is, before the 6-month limit expired.

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