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Thread: Lest we forget

  1. #21
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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    I do remember the general public trying to stop planning permission in some areas though. The said that wind farms are ugly to live near.
    So you live in an isolated area, beautiful panoramic scenes without so much as a telegraph pole... and some "townies" come along and plant huge great metal monstrosities in your back yard. Would you welcome them? Especially since they produce noise and vibration. And not just one, but twenty odd? A forest of giant windmills that dwarf the rest of the landscape. They are also not cheap to produce: I'm sure I read somewhere that the energy used in producing the materials used and erecting a windmill takes longer for it to generate than it's own life expectancy.

    {BTW I think they are artful and quite cool, but they are not in my back yard.}

    Putting them out at sea is a great solution, and it is always more windy on the coast than inland.
    A better solution I think is the tidal power stations: a big hole on the coast that has a turbine pushed by the tide rising, then flaps divert to another turbine that pushed by the tide falling.
    Big cost in setting them up, but no problems with too strong tides or no tides: constant power.

    House building has been slow to turn green too. Houses in the UK are hard to heat. Only since the 60's do homes have cavity wall insulation.
    Open fires let out a lot of heat through the chimney.
    Houses are built to meet the needs of the person building them (not necessarily the person living in them) Would you pay an extra 10-20-30% on your house price because it had been built a bit more ecologically? People will not pay the for a two bedroom house when they could have a three bedroom house with larger rooms for the same money.

    The only thing regulating the amount of insulation in new builds are the local councils: They specify how much insulation you have to put in. (Although they are a bit caught up in red tape and one hand seldom knows what the other is doing, let alone agrees with it )

    Do you know what insulation you have in your home? Your walls, roof, floor, glazing? Not quantity, but specification: Did you know that windows now are being energy rated as per fridges and freezers and washing machines?
    An "A" rated window has a few features I doubt you will find in your existing windows: The glass has a fine layer of metals applied to it that reflect the heat back into the room and prevent the heat from the sun heating the room too much. The cavity between is filled with an inert gas. The spacer bar between panes is an low conductivity inert material. The frames are multi-chambered. The reinforcing that the hardware is secured into is made from reconstituted PVCu.
    Most existing homes would be about a D or E. New windows in the last couple of years would be about a C rating.

    Are you willing to do your bit for the environment and pay between £500-£700 per window? £1200-£1500 per door? {at a rough educated guess}

    Solar panels are expensive. By now, surely they should be a norm?
    Also apparently you don't need lots of sun for solar panels to power a kettle in winter.
    What do you think solar panels do? How long do you think they last? Do you have any on your house?

    There is a rumour that approx 15 years ago, someone invented a car that runs on water.

    Needless to say, the oil companies soon bought up the patent and shoved it in a safe, never to be used.

    I wonder how often this happens? I bet people all over the world have invented machines that can save us dying out as a human race.
    Hydrogen cell powered cars are a reality in California. (It said so on Top Gear - it must be true )
    The main problem people found with creating electricity from water is that it takes more energy to break the water into hydrogen and oxygen (that can be used) than you get from using the resulting hydrogen and oxygen. I did hear that someone made it work, but it could have been a conspiracy theory.

  2. #22
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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    People will not pay the for a two bedroom house when they could have a three bedroom house with larger rooms for the same money.
    oh yes they will. People will pay twice as much for half the size depending on location. Oh I know what you meant, but there is still "total cost of ownership" to consider.

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    and ahem from me too.
    Having introduced an apprentice poster to the forum basement, what shall we do now?
    I wouldn't worry - after the dance I had with her tonight (Sat) to "I just wanna make love to you", I think she'll be just fine in the down and dirty areas

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    and ahem from me too.
    Having introduced an apprentice poster to the forum basement, what shall we do now?
    it all depends on what tune is playing

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post

    Oh dear. They should make urban myths bio-degradeable, this one has lasted far too long.

    Patents are granted as a reward for making an invention public, so that everybody can benefit from it. The alternative for an inventor is to try and keep things a trade secret, so only the inventor can benefit.

    As part of the patent process all patents, except those affecting national security, are published. You can be sure if it were possible to run warships or tanks on water it would have happened.
    see below
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Would you welcome them? Especially since they produce noise and vibration. And not just one, but twenty odd? A forest of giant windmills that dwarf the rest of the landscape.
    I've seen them at Goonhilly in Cornwall, a lot there, but away from houses.
    They are also not cheap to produce: I'm sure I read somewhere that the energy used in producing the materials used and erecting a windmill takes longer for it to generate than it's own life expectancy.
    That's what they said about towelling nappies, that the energy need to wash and dry them, meant you might just as well use disposables with a clear consience. All lies, of course, put about by Pampers. Terry nappies are having a revival in London.

    A better solution I think is the tidal power stations: a big hole on the coast that has a turbine pushed by the tide rising, then flaps divert to another turbine that pushed by the tide falling.
    Big cost in setting them up, but no problems with too strong tides or no tides: constant power.
    You have a lot of hydro electricity in Scotland don't you?

    Do you know what insulation you have in your home? Your walls, roof, floor, glazing? Not quantity, but specification: Did you know that windows now are being energy rated as per fridges and freezers and washing machines?
    An "A" rated window has a few features I doubt you will find in your existing windows: The glass has a fine layer of metals applied to it that reflect the heat back into the room and prevent the heat from the sun heating the room too much. The cavity between is filled with an inert gas. The spacer bar between panes is an low conductivity inert material. The frames are multi-chambered. The reinforcing that the hardware is secured into is made from reconstituted PVCu.
    Most existing homes would be about a D or E. New windows in the last couple of years would be about a C rating.
    That's interesting.
    Are you willing to do your bit for the environment and pay between £500-£700 per window? £1200-£1500 per door? {at a rough educated guess}
    I'm a council tenant. We are getting a new front door next year, I am hoping they will not be PVC like we have now, as I want to paint mine. Get sick of white everywhere.

    The windows are also PVC double glazed, but are a bugger to open and close.
    What do you think solar panels do? How long do you think they last? Do you have any on your house?
    No, I thought someone else on the forum might have them?
    Hydrogen cell powered cars are a reality in California. (It said so on Top Gear - it must be true )
    The main problem people found with creating electricity from water is that it takes more energy to break the water into hydrogen and oxygen (that can be used) than you get from using the resulting hydrogen and oxygen. I did hear that someone made it work, but it could have been a conspiracy theory.
    I hope now we are at the 11th hour all this will be sorted out and common sense will reign, instead of the filthy lucre.
    Last edited by Astro; 30th-March-2009 at 10:32 AM.

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    I'm sure I read somewhere that the energy used in producing the materials used and erecting a windmill takes longer for it to generate than it's own life expectancy.
    OK, it's not the most unbiased source, but there's an article from Denmark here:

    [b](emphasis mine) A modern Danish 600 kW wind turbine will recover all the energy spent in its manufacture, maintenance, and scrapping within some three months of its commissioning.

    Within its 20-year design lifetime a wind turbine will supply at least 80 times the energy spent in its manufacture, installation, operation, maintenance and scrapping.
    Even allowing for some optimistic analysis, it seems pretty clear they produce postiive net energy. (Again, I was surprised to look this up and see they were so much better than break even).

    What do you think solar panels do? How long do you think they last? Do you have any on your house?
    Solar panels do seem to be an area where there is a lot of rapid progress going on. On the other hand, much of that progress seems to be along the lines of making the panels thinner and thinner (so less material is used, and also so less energy is 'wasted' going through the panels), which probably doesn't speak well for longevity. (If you're researching solar power generation in Death Valley, you are probably not too concerned about whether your panel can stand up to hailstones).

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    Re: Lest we forget

    ... There is a rumour that approx 15 years ago, someone invented a car that runs on water...

    ... Hydrogen cell powered cars are a reality in California...
    Water is the waste product that remains after hydrogen burns. Running a car on coal has been done, running one one ash is a different proposition.

    Running a car on water + something else is possible, e.g. water + sodium (or potassium or calcium carbide or others) would work.

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Water is the waste product that remains after hydrogen burns. Running a car on coal has been done, running one one ash is a different proposition.

    Running a car on water + something else is possible, e.g. water + sodium (or potassium or calcium carbide or others) would work.
    I still think, that if you went into your lab BidDjiver, worked it all out, designed the car, tested it and patented it, some mogul would come along and offer you a fortune to forget all about it - possibly with menaces.

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    I still think, that if you went into your lab BidDjiver, worked it all out, designed the car, tested it and patented it, some mogul would come along and offer you a fortune to forget all about it - possibly with menaces.
    what sort of menaces? The mavericks - "dance the night away" on perpetual loop ?

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    I still think, that if you went into your lab BidDjiver, worked it all out, designed the car, tested it and patented it, some mogul would come along and offer you a fortune to forget all about it - possibly with menaces.
    Firstly, I need neither inducements or threats to forget things. One of my enduring sadnesses is that I cannot remember partners names, with very, very few exceptions. When I am dancing my brain moves towards the dream state, disconnected from memory.

    Secondly, the process of patenting something necessarily involves putting it on public record. However, I agree with the theory that some moguls suppress beneficial inventions, but either before they reach the patent stage, or after, buying the patent but not putting it into production.

    Some people believe that TV manufacturers are on a go slow on OLED technology, which promises better quality TV screens, using less power and being even thinner, lighter and more versatile. If we had invested as much as they have in the current generation we might think that way too.

  11. #31
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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    However, I agree with the theory that some moguls suppress beneficial inventions, but either before they reach the patent stage, or after, buying the patent but not putting it into production.
    Ironically, the most common way this usually happens is that it's actually the moguls' own invention (i.e. invented in a company they own). Unsurprisingly, the invention won't see the light of day until the best time for the company. (Drug companies apparently have a nice game of waiting until a drug is about to go out of patent, then patenting an improved version of the drug).

    However, in this day and age, it's very hard to actually suppress information. (As Jacqui Smith is discovering...)

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Ironically, the most common way this usually happens is that it's actually the moguls' own invention (i.e. invented in a company they own). Unsurprisingly, the invention won't see the light of day until the best time for the company. (Drug companies apparently have a nice game of waiting until a drug is about to go out of patent, then patenting an improved version of the drug)...
    The cynics amongst us are not in the least bit surprised if, about this time, studies appear linking the original drug with all sorts of unpleasant side effects.

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post

    Some people believe that TV manufacturers are on a go slow on OLED technology, which promises better quality TV screens, using less power and being even thinner, lighter and more versatile. If we had invested as much as they have in the current generation we might think that way too.
    Yes, they have had the technology to allow TV's to switch themselves off when they sense someone is no longer in the room or fallen asleep. (Probably sense a lack of movement) This will save parents a lot of money on their electric bills especially, so wondering if TV companies and Electric Utilities are hand in glove?
    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Ironically, the most common way this usually happens is that it's actually the moguls' own invention (i.e. invented in a company they own). Unsurprisingly, the invention won't see the light of day until the best time for the company.
    Interested parties also employ people to check through all new patents.
    (Drug companies apparently have a nice game of waiting until a drug is about to go out of patent, then patenting an improved version of the drug).

    However, in this day and age, it's very hard to actually suppress information. (As Jacqui Smith is discovering...)
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    The cynics amongst us are not in the least bit surprised if, about this time, studies appear linking the original drug with all sorts of unpleasant side effects.
    Shhh... Barry and Andy might hear.

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    The problems with nuclear reactors are

    1. What to do with the radioactive waste. It used to be flushed into the sea. That's why nuclear power plants are always built on the coast in the UK.

    I don't think they are allowed to do this anymore, as the sea life was dying. (hope not!)
    Yikes Astro,

    Nuclear power plants are built on the coast because they need a huge amount of cooling water, not to flush the waste into the sea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    2. Human error regarding leaks. (Homar Simpson!, no really, it would be a boring job working there, what sort of staff will it attract?)


    I can't read any further
    [quote=Astro;541003]

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Interestingly the UK has most potential wind energy in Europe, but we don't make use of it.

    Plus you have to do something else when the wind stops blowing.
    And when the wind blows too hard - then you have to disconnect the turbine from the generator (so it doesn't make electricity) to prevent damage.

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Toasti View Post
    And when the wind blows too hard - then you have to disconnect the turbine from the generator (so it doesn't make electricity) to prevent damage.
    i would hope that was part of the internal workings - otherwise theres a serious design flaw

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Toasti View Post
    Yikes Astro,

    Nuclear power plants are built on the coast because they need a huge amount of cooling water, not to flush the waste into the sea!



    They did used to, but not now of course.

    Yes, they need water for cooling, but the huge cooling towers at Selby in Yorkshire are miles from the sea.

    After the Windscale disaster, the Irish Sea was radioactive.

    I don't know if it is official okay to bathe in the Irish Sea yet?
    I can't read any further
    Human error has to factored in to everything. Then there's the Chaos Theory to factor in.

    Too risky Master..

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Human error has to factored in to everything. Then there's the Chaos Theory to factor in.
    I use that excuse every time I try and cook something. It would have gone so well if I hadnt forgotten to factor in Chaos Theory. When will I ever learn ?

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    Re: Lest we forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Toasti View Post
    And when the wind blows too hard - then you have to disconnect the turbine from the generator (so it doesn't make electricity) to prevent damage.
    Darling has announced £200 million to build windfarms offshore on our island coastline and more hydro electric power.

    Wouldn't it be great if they were manufactured in the UK?

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