ban violent games

[Dreadful Scathe]

Got to admire the logic here, of the German policeman who claims that because - "“in every situation in which a violent rampage has occurred”, the perpetrator had an “addiction to so-called killer games" - all violent video games should be banned? huh? So if something appears to be related to an illegal/immoral act we should ban it ? surely he doesn't mean that ? ah but he then says “when a chance to remove a probable cause exists, it must be used”. So he really DOES mean that.

With a definition of "probable cause" which includes personal hobbies and pastimes, what other legislation is he looking for?

Prostitutes tend to stand on pavements on street corners? ban pavements ?

Criminals drink in pubs? ban pubs and all social meeting places?

Shoplifters steal from shops? ban shops and make the high street one giant vending machine?

and ultimately, the Judge Death logic of "all crime is committed by the living", so ban life.

sorted.

...er...does he have a gun ?

[Phil_dB]

I agree, - completely idiotic.

The sort of person who would reenact what they did in a violent computer game is the sort of person who would be violent anyway, - game or no game.

Where did violent people get their inspiration from before computer games...

[bigdjiver]

... The sort of person who would reenact what they did in a violent computer game is the sort of person who would be violent anyway, - game or no game.

and a good dancer would be a good dancer even if they did not watch other dancers?

Human beings are built to imitate.

Pilots would be just as good if they did not train on simulators?

Where did violent people get their inspiration from before computer games...

Wint a few it is inherent, but most from actuaL violence. All of the people involved in conflicts are not a different species, they just have different experiences. Quite often these are not first-hand, but come from accounts, propoganda, rumours, the media.

[Phil_dB]

and a good dancer would be a good dancer even if they did not watch other dancers?

Maybe, maybe not, depends on natural ability.

I'm pretty sure people would still dance had they never seen someone dance before. Likewise, some people would still be violent had they never seen violence before.

[Steven666]

Tell him to play "Madworld" on the Wii...

[Dreadful Scathe]

and a good dancer would be a good dancer even if they did not watch other dancers?

Quite a poor comparison you have there - you got a licence for it ?

Violence is an emotional response. How good someone is at being violent is hardly the point, its the trigger for what makes them violent we are discussing. Games are not the ultimate source.

Human beings are built to imitate.

Yes, but we are not robots and cannot completely remove ourselves from our basic animal instincts and emotions. Even Spock couldn't do that.
But you do have a point - if we think about "impressionable minds" i.e. children - too much violence will not be something we want them to witness - but then violent media including games are not for children, nor should they be.

Pilots would be just as good if they did not train on simulators?

To take your analogy back the way again - do violent people become better at violence because of violence simulators? We could say that they are drawn to games because the violent part of it appeals to their personalities, but even that wouldn't be likely. Games, even I imagine for REALLY violent people, are a form of escape from real life - only the truly mentally ill who cant tell the physical difference between holding a mouse and holding a gun will be so removed from reality that violent games will actually make them more violent (and as they were already violent, why blame the game at all?).

News, tv, film, books and many a city town centre on a saturday night are sources of a "little bit" of violence; its part of nature and not something that can be sourced from pixels on a screen . Many animals, including humans, can be violent.

Wint a few it is inherent, but most from actuaL violence. All of the people involved in conflicts are not a different species, they just have different experiences. Quite often these are not first-hand, but come from accounts, propoganda, rumours, the media.

Yes, for some really violent people it is inherent, but most of the rest will become violent due to first hand experience of actual physical violence - not TV violence, or games, or nature programs of lions on the savanah or killer whales killing a seal in the ocean. You say that "quite often" people are violent even without being exposed to actual first-hand physical violence? Have you any actual evidence of this? I can see why there would be more violence in violent countries where these is constant conflict, but humans in awful conditions struggling to survive will do what ever they need to do - what they do may be violent, but are they violent? - and it hardly equates to a 20 year old european university student who after playing Grand Theft Auto 4 goes on a shooting spree - its clear he has OTHER problems not caused by the games he just happened to play.

For someone in a "western" country where their society doesn't have quite the scale of violence as a war zone, they may still be violent due to an extremely abusive upbringing where they experienced daily violence...but is a game likely to make them worse? Is it not their upbringing that we should look to as the problem?

[bigdjiver]

We all think we are sufficiently independent of thought that we are not unduly influenced by what we see. For some reason very large, experienced commercial organisations flood us with advertising. They, and I, and that policeman, do think that what we see, and especially what we act out, does affect us.

[Dreadful Scathe]

We all think we are sufficiently independent of thought that we are not unduly influenced by what we see.

Speak for yourself, I'm a sucker for a funny advert

For some reason very large, experienced commercial organisations flood us with advertising. They, and I, and that policeman, do think that what we see, and especially what we act out, does affect us.

just a few points

1. every experience affects us in some way
2. violent games are not a cause of violence
3. visiting an art exhibition does not make you an artist
4. that policeman is an idiot

[bigdjiver]

...
just a few points

1. every experience affects us in some way

Sometimes they do not affect us enough, e.g. reading the opinions of professionals.

2. violent games are not a cause of violence

Oil does not cause slipping, gravity and momentum does, but it makes a difference.

3. visiting an art exhibition does not make you an artist

Read some bios.

4. that policeman is an idiot

People that play computer games are more likely to fit that category. (he says, closing the Freecell window.)

[Dreadful Scathe]

Sometimes they do not affect us enough, e.g. reading the opinions of professionals.

Example ? Certainly not this German policeman, he should stick to enforcing the law and stay away from any discussion on causality, he is clearly not even a talented amateur at it

Oil does not cause slipping, gravity and momentum does, but it makes a difference.

Entertainment, such as games and films, are a drop in the ocean as far as affecting a normal persons psyche is concerned. And, as I don't subscribe to any sort of "straw that broke the camels back" theory regarding violent computer games - I can confidently claim that no one slips over the edge into violent retribution against society, purely because of the game itself.

Read some bios.

Which ones? I have yet to read anything that suggests that simply going to an art exhibition can magically give you the ability to paint when you do not already have artistic talent.

People that play computer games are more likely to fit that category. (he says, closing the Freecell window.)

you realise that sounds a bit like "almost all black people can dance" ?

[StokeBloke]

When I first started playing Mario World I was compelled to eat red/white mushrooms to try and get big and strong. A practice that has so far landed me in hospital no fewer than 67 times... although the stomach pump isn't pleasant, it is far better than the mess I make jumping on tortoises. I was completely sane and normal before Mario turned me into a 'shroom headed tortoise stomper.

I agree mit Herr Politzi, video games are the seed of Satan. Heaven forbid we start to take responsibility for our own actions in life. Let's all go to the town square and burn some books too *sheesh*

[frolicols]

When I first started playing Mario World I was compelled to eat red/white mushrooms to try and get big and strong. A practice that has so far landed me in hospital no fewer than 67 times... although the stomach pump isn't pleasant, it is far better than the mess I make jumping on tortoises. I was completely sane and normal before Mario turned me into a 'shroom headed tortoise stomper.

I agree mit Herr Politzi, video games are the seed of Satan. Heaven forbid we start to take responsibility for our own actions in life. Let's all go to the town square and burn some books too *sheesh*

I fully agree. I was building a wall using a variety of shaped blocks (one long piece, a T-shape one, a couple of L's etc) but I got distracted spinning a hedgehog to see how fast it would go...

[bigdjiver]

I fully agree. I was building a wall using a variety of shaped blocks (one long piece, a T-shape one, a couple of L's etc) but I got distracted spinning a hedgehog to see how fast it would go...

Hmmm ...

Our local T.V. news had a report about a bald hedgehog...

[Beowulf]

The only way computer games have affected me is the urge to say "Zug Zug!" when I interact with a shop keeper . Also when I'm in the office and I'm looking for someone to do work for I have to remember to ask them.. and not just look for the giant yellow exclamation mark above their heads..

Now if you excuse me I've got my wolf to feed and my axe to sharpen.

[bigdjiver]

The only way computer games have affected me is the urge to say "Zug Zug!" when I interact with a shop keeper . Also when I'm in the office and I'm looking for someone to do work for I have to remember to ask them.. and not just look for the giant yellow exclamation mark above their heads..

Now if you excuse me I've got my wolf to feed and my axe to sharpen.

The reason hy I have not come out in favour of banning such games is that they do have beneficial effects too. I cannot remember reading of any cases of wolf starvation in this country for as far back as I can remember.

We have to learn to accept the modern world. I am, of course, pleased that the axe is sharp, but have you oiled the chainsaw?

[knightengale]

The thing i don't get is all this talk about banining games. Why can't they be treated like movies. An 18 game is only for 18 years old +. With the real decision / Responsiblity being for the parents to decided if they want there child to play a game can clearly says 18 +

If people where never violent before computer games then this cop would have a point.. Crime and violence are part of what we are as people. Computer games are not part of that. As if X number of millions of people play a game then the crazy people will be part of that millions of people . It's the same as the argument about rock and roll, then heavy metal.... Pointless and just a cause of not wanting to take a look at the fact that humans are volient with most of us being smart enough to not kill etc..

Roll on 10 years from now when games will not be the escape goat....

[Beowulf]

the escape goat....

Is that a character from the new hybrid Movie The Great Escape from Animal Farm?

[Steven666]

The thing i don't get is all this talk about banining games. Why can't they be treated like movies. An 18 game is only for 18 years old +. With the real decision / Responsiblity being for the parents to decided if they want there child to play a game can clearly says 18 +

If people where never violent before computer games then this cop would have a point.. Crime and violence are part of what we are as people. Computer games are not part of that. As if X number of millions of people play a game then the crazy people will be part of that millions of people . It's the same as the argument about rock and roll, then heavy metal.... Pointless and just a cause of not wanting to take a look at the fact that humans are volient with most of us being smart enough to not kill etc..

Roll on 10 years from now when games will not be the escape goat....

Games have ratings.

Unfortunately 18+ games are often sold to either minors or to parents with their minors in tow.

[knightengale]

Games have ratings.

Unfortunately 18+ games are often sold to either minors or to parents with their minors in tow.

That is true, although i have seen a few game shop owners pointing out to parents that Doom 3 was not for her 12 year old grandchild. Although she did still get the game.

I don't get why they can't set the same rules to the shops.. Making the sale of 18+ games etc to under 18s illegal etc

As the ratings are rather easy to spot on a game.. So why can't shops and parents notice it

[knightengale]

Is that a character from the new hybrid Movie The Great Escape from Animal Farm?

Yeah they are making a game for the wii too.. Where you have to play the Goat