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Thread: Is Comic Relief evil ?

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    Papa Smurf
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    Is Comic Relief evil ?

    oooh little bit o' controversy...

    For all the Comic Relief money raised, 60% is spent in Africa and 40% is spent in the UK.
    (according to here). The question is, is that support encouraging the population to have more children? or does that just happen anyway and the aid support simply keeps more of the population alive so they can have yet more children themselves (who then require yet more support)? Is the support from "Western" countries an evil act that will forever leave a growing population in poverty?

    The stats here show us that world births so far for this year are roughly 30 million, but the deaths are a mere 13 million. Whats interesting, is that Europe does not add to the births figure. European population is actually decreasing. It's Africa that sees the biggest increases. As you can see here (scroll down to the "UN estimates (in thousands)" table) year after year Africas future population is going to increase - compared to every other continent that will stay roughly the same or decrease in population. Food and Water are going to be a growing problem for developing Africa and if we supply it in Aid...are we evil for increasing poverty in the world? They say the end justifies the means - but the end here is more poverty for more people!

    I'm not advocating "letting them die" before you say anything - this is just something to think about. Why does much of Africa have 3 births (or more) for every death? We know there are a lot of deaths, that is what the media focuses on, but we also know (slightly less well) that the population is well on the rise despite this. So should we just ignore this fact and carry on as we are? This table shows births versus deaths. In it we can see that for most "western" countries it is roughly equal. e.g. United Kingdom 10.7 births for 10.1 deaths (per 1000), Sweden 10.2 for 10.3. Compare this to some of the African countries : Ghana 29.9 births for 9.6 deaths (a ratio of 3 to 1) : Somalia 44.6/16.3 (3 to 1) : Syria 27.2/4.7 (a massive 6 to 1). The people may be suffering individually (they certainly are) but the population is certainly not. How much of this is down to comfort : i.e. I know how many children I can comfortably support both financially and emotionally (we want to bring them up well don't we?) But thats easy for me to judge, especially as i know that my family have a welfare system to fall back on if the worst happens. Births in third world countries rarely come about with such consideration. Survival of the family and the larger social group are surely by far the biggest considerations - and new life is needed to survive. Not all of Africa has this problem of course, in South Africa there are 17.9 births for every 22.4 deaths, one of the most dramatic population declines in the table. But generally Africa shows the most postive growth of people in the whole world.

    So, should we leave Africa well alone ? Should we keep charity at home?

    Discuss...



    If you require more statistics here is a breakdown on population growth and what it means

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Racist propoganda.

    Everywhere in the world as prosperity, education, and the standard of living increases the birth rate decreases. This can be expected to be true in Africa.

    As the standard of living rises life expectancy rises too. The population "grows" at an increased rate because the older folk are not dying so soon.

    A simple comparison of population densities around the world shows that this country can preach to nobody about "over-population".

    This propoganda is just about as racist as it gets. The good life is for us, early death and misery is for them.

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Reminds me if this, which was being discussed on radio 2 yesterday.

    Some helpful soul said that we should all be (globally) restricted to having 2 children at most, otherwise the world itself would deal with it's over population issues.

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    oooh little bit o' controversy...

    It's Africa that sees the biggest increases. year after year Africas future population is going to increase - compared to every other continent that will stay roughly the same or decrease in population.
    So, should we leave Africa well alone ? Should we keep charity at home?

    Discuss...



    [/url]
    I think the simplest solution would be to send an X Box or one million of them out there with some HD Tv's and great games.

    Ruins most sex lives and would stop re population at such speed.

    SHould charity begin at home - Charity should begin where its needed, be it here or abroad. The trouble is, with charity, is that its never ending. You can make yourself feel better about the sad stories one day then see another sad story the next..

    Should we stand back and be cruel to be kind, which is what the reports are suggesting, absolutely not. We have to help becuase if we dont, we just become animals. Leaving the weak to die.

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Who moved Syria?

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Reminds me if this, which was being discussed on radio 2 yesterday.

    Some helpful soul said that we should all be (globally) restricted to having 2 children at most, otherwise the world itself would deal with it's over population issues.
    I think that was the same programme that some called to say that it's not enough to restrict population growth, we need to actively reduce the population!

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I think that was the same programme that some called to say that it's not enough to restrict population growth, we need to actively reduce the population!
    Who's got the forum gun at the moment? I could quite happily reduce the population by at least 10 right away, which would also help me to achieve my current forum status.

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Who's got the forum gun at the moment? I could quite happily reduce the population by at least 10 right away, which would also help me to achieve my current forum status.
    Only 10?

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    Registered User Daisy Chain's Avatar
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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    I don't know if Comic Relief was evil. I could only stand 10 minutes of Davina McCall shouting and gurning at the camera before I has to switch telly channels.

    Daisy

    (A Deafened Little FLower)

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Racist propoganda.
    I've not seen anyone espouse this with any seriousness, so I couldn't label it propaganda. Also, racism is not necessarily involved, the stats are from reasonable sources so they are what they are, race doesnt really enter into it (especially as birth/rate difference depends on the society regardless of races who live there). Saying that, I raised this as a talking point because I don't think we get enough media coverage of Africa - sure charity drives show the negative side - we hear of wars and genocide etc... But the positive stories of life in some of the poorer countries and how they are improving in the 21st century are often limited to National Geographic and documentaries. And often we have many more programs on African wildlife than actual people.

    Everywhere in the world as prosperity, education, and the standard of living increases the birth rate decreases. This can be expected to be true in Africa.
    As the standard of living rises life expectancy rises too. The population "grows" at an increased rate because the older folk are not dying so soon.
    A simple comparison of population densities around the world shows that this country can preach to nobody about "over-population".
    This propoganda is just about as racist as it gets. The good life is for us, early death and misery is for them.
    Most have heard of the "out of africa" theory, its where we all come from as a species - except nowadays humans in Africa cant simply migrate to land better able to support them; modern land ownership, borders and passport control puts paid to that So, personally I don't think we do anywhere near enough for our species.

    This propoganda is just about as racist as it gets. The good life is for us, early death and misery is for them.
    Surely the onus is on the richer countries to change that. For all the technological imporvements than can and do help, its depressing when you read of the many things that seem to take a step backwards to protect corporate profits e.g. engineered seeds that can be planted once

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicklet
    Who moved Syria?
    Just a check to see if anyone read all of my post. I was going to use an eastern europe country but thought that would be too obvious Also, I only raised "controversial subject #1" after Trouble raised a couple of tame ones I actually wish i hadn't bothered as i find the whole thing depressing - but in retrospect its the implications of my own loaded wording thats depressing me, rather than the actual subject matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Chain
    I don't know if Comic Relief was evil. I could only stand 10 minutes of Davina McCall shouting and gurning at the camera before I has to switch telly channels.
    Yes gurning. Thought David Tenant was good, but overall - fairly dull television

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    ... Also, racism is not necessarily involved, the stats are from reasonable sources so they are what they are, race doesnt really enter into it (especially as birth/rate difference depends on the society regardless of races who live there)...
    Way, way back I read a Hansard (the official record of Parliament) report of a debate on hospitals. The Government said that 90% of patients in the are concerned were in hospitals built since ... The opposition said that 85% of the hospitals in the area were built before ...
    The same true facts, different use of the same "reasonable sources".

    In this case the misuse of the statistics to try and support the argument that we should not be sending money there is racist and will be happily accepted and used by extremists. Along with projects to improve health will go health workers advising on contraception.

    Programmes on Africa would be very uncomfortable viewing. Many of the conflicts there are fueled by th greed and need of "advanced" countries. Oil, diamonds, copper and gold being some of the fuels. Arable land grows food for export outside Africa. Attempts to build manufacturing there to give employment and income are severely impaired by huge tariffs. Africa is a very sick giant, and the world outside does not really want it to get well too soon.

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    Cool Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicklet View Post
    Who moved Syria?
    Pickfords

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    Re: Is Comic Relief evil ?

    Yes ... this isn't simple issue.

    Although I see the stats, which suggest that something is "wrong" in these other countries, I fully accept that this opinion of mine is simply that, my opinion, based on my western conditioning, values and upbringing. And where I have no problem having that opinion (or airing it), it is not one that I would espouse or argue.

    So does this charity do any good?

    Risking torrents of abuse, I don't believe that the money is any more than a very short time fix, and achieves no real value in the long term. [And in fact, risks creating a dependency relationship, and has been blamed, in the past for allowing governments to spend more on war, cos food and welfare is being subsidised by others]

    However, the act of selfless giving is always a good thing, in my opinion.

    Personally, I believe that the best way to give is face to face ... such as those emergency volunteers who help out in major disasters, and the overseas volunteer brigade.

    This is, as ever, a personal opinion. Feel free to criticise and/or agree with the points, but not the person!!!

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