Dancing or Dating?

[kps]

I'm starting to feel like I'm missing out.

[Lory]

I'm starting to feel like I'm missing out.

Hey, the weekend starts TOMORROW, remember?

[Villemo]

Hello and thanks for replies, yes i may be over analysing but that is what Social Anxiety does.

Also SA is not being shy, it way way past that.

social-anxiety.org.uk/whatis/whatis.htm

The fact is women run the dating game, they send out subtle signals that we men may or may not pick either consciously or unconsciously, but they do send them, but as already said in the dance world these are blurred in with the dance.

Thing is i read lot on the forums about women having too much male attention, or men being sleazy. Feeling rejected and judged for what you may or may not being or saying or doing is part of SA, it can be something very small and you know it is stupid but it is still there so taking a risk and getting it wrong can be hard.

If you don't believe in or understand SA then all this may seem very silly, but at the end of the day i am just trying to get clearer idea of how to read situation.

How bad can SA get, well when i first started dancing if a women did not give me any eye contact it could ruin my whole night and i would go home early, why? Because the SA would lead me to believe i had been rejected.

Now i am can put it down to her being shy etc and continue to have a good night.

cheers

Not intended as a stab on anybody, but everyone I' sure has felt like they're not part of the group at one time or another. No reason to feel like a victim. We all have issues, small or large. Don't take it personal if someone doesn't wan't to dance, they might have their reasons. Getting up close and personal might be an expression of the music, not a signal that they fancy you, and that goes for both girls and guys. Enjoy the dance, and if you want to get to know the person better, talk to them after the dance, ask them for a drink etc. Most of us dance because it social, and we make great friends.
Best of luck!

[kps]

Hey, the weekend starts TOMORROW, remember?

I look forward to our 3 minute affair... I'm hoping it's an extended version not the radio edit

[Jay Jay]

Ahem to you misses... I said it yesterday... nerrr!

Sorry I missed it but it was on a different thread......so we both enjoy the odd dance floor affair....good ain't it

[MartinHarper]

I would suggest modelling it as a tiered system. When you get a sufficient cluster of IOIs in one tier, express interest in the next tier and see if you still get a bite. If you're still getting interest at tier 4/5, ask her out.

Tier 1: IOIs during a dance.
Tier 2: IOIs before or after a dance
Tier 3: IOIs in a dance venue, not connected to a dance
Tier 4: IOIs before or after the dance venue (pub afterwards, car park, chalet, etc)
Tier 5: IOIs not connected to a dance venue

[Miss Flicts]

My very best advice to you is to completely ignore any 'signals' given during a dance, because they are most likely NOT 'signals' at all - just part of a confident/tactile person's dance style.

Dancing itself breaks all the normal 'rules' about personal space, eye contact and physical contact, so anything which happens within a dance can't be interpreted in the same way as regular body language.

I guess my style might be considered 'flirtatious', but it really is just the way I dance, and I dance like that with everyone, including men in their seventies/eighties and other women. It's just part of the dance.

So please - avoid confusion and do yourself a favour by only paying attention to 'signals' off the dancefloor!

That way you will minimise the likelihood of getting it wrong, and also you can just relax and enjoy the dancing for what it is.

And don't worry - you are very unlikely to 'miss' some crucial signal. If a woman is interested, you will somehow just find yourself chatting to her (because she will make sure that happens, without you even noticing..)

[Dreadful Scathe]

The fact is women run the dating game, they send out subtle signals that we men may or may not pick either consciously or unconsciously, but they do send them, but as already said in the dance world these are blurred in with the dance.

I wouldn't say blurred. Humans* constantly give subtle signals of what they are thinking whether they are dancing, snowboarding, even talking on the phone when the other person can't see them - its unconscious. Some people can read these signals well, some can't. One must always remember, its not about YOU, its about THEM and what they are thinking. I can understand trying to interpret signals as if they DO apply to you when in a one on one situation (i.e. a dance) if you have issues with self esteem or whatever, but get over it or ignore it - or perhaps preferably, get to know people by normal verbal communication and make an informed decision on THAT.




*Humans are overrated. It's often a mistake of AI research that the definition of success would be a successful Turing test. How short sighted is THAT?

[bigdjiver]

Hello this thread idea came up after reading a thread on eye contact and how men can misread this as a come on...

One of the things I love about MJ is that it is an opportunity to practise acting, in particular acting flirtatious.

...So with dancing blurring the traditional notions of male female interactions a fellow can get a bit confused...

A fellow can be so confused that he has no idea where he stands, or what is going on. For the most part a dance is just a dance.

... i am still confused about some of the signals women give at dancing...

I watched the Horizon TV program on nakedness using on-demand last night. One of the researchers claimed that men had a better than chance performance in indentifying what part of the menstrual cycle a woman was in just by looking at photographs of them. It appears that there are some signals that are inate, anywhere.

OTOH MJ as an opportunity to act gives some ladies the chance to hone their flirting skills to Oscar winning levels.

...I don't dancing to 'pull' but i am human and do see others getting together via dancing...

I have on two occasions been "flirted" in a beginner class by different stunningly beautiful girls. I asked myself if they were like that with all the guys. They were the same with another guy down the line. When I checked a bit later in the class they were both leaving, man attached.

The only way to find out is to risk rejection. "Faint heart never won fair lady".

As already said SP can make interactions and especially dating very difficult, but i not ignorant of body language and having worked with young people i aware of sexual boundaries; teenage girls would often practise their feminine charms on me as i was 'safe 'male' and i understood this for what is was.

... The confusion comes in being able to worked out when an interaction is just a good dance and when there is something more, if in doubt i always go for the good dance stance...

Safe

.... But what if the eye contact and 'look' continue when not dancing?

With non verbal communication and dating it is said ...

As has been said, too analytical. This looks like the score-carding approach to sex. The "What gives me maximum return for minimal outlay?" approach.

If you listen to some different analysts you would hear that persistence is one of the traits that women seek in men. By instinct they look for life partners, someone who really wants to be with them. Part of the mating dance is rejecting, and having their suitor coming back nonetheless.

If you come out of the cake shop with a cake, you have not "rejected" all of the cakes you left behind, you have just chosen the one right for the moment. The same is true for others. A lady, or employer, or whatever, may be perfectly happy with you as a choice, but have to put you on their "another time" list. We all do that, all of the time.

Enjoy dancing, enjoy flirting, enjoy their company. It will work out.

[philsmove]

When I checked a bit later in the class they were both leaving, man attached.

......
.

but don't assume, because someone arrives with, or leaves with someone, they are "attached" to them

Enjoy dancing, enjoy flirting, enjoy their company. It will work out.

[Phil_dB]

1st of all men wouldnt know a flirt if they were smacked in the face with it.

That describes me very well ^^^ - I just think they're being friendly - unless of course they make it VERY obvious, - thank God not ALL girls are subtle

[u-dancing]

Hello and thanks for all the replies.

The feedback from the ladies concerning their interactions with men after a dance was helpful and i will take anything that happens on the dance floor for just being about the dance, even if i think it is not.

I know i may come across a dork but i was not always this bad, in fact in my youth i had SA under control and was successful with the ladies though not with relationships.

I know there are some who think that mental health is just a case of pulling you socks up. I know i thought that and due to this lived many years in denial of psychology issues relating to maternal rejection when very young, which resulted in a long period of depression that started in my late 20s, and which led to my SA getting so bad. I have the better of the depression now and am dealing with the SA.

I can understand you may think i am being over analytical but it is not my intention, Social Anxiety (SA) causes you to ruminate over anything that may cause or has caused SA. It is something i am working on but can be tough to re-train the thought process.

I am aware that everyone has issues with approaching others, especially if that fancy them but SA is way beyond shyness and very simple things that most people think nothing of become a huge hurdle.

For instance when i first started dancing i saw others who started at same time arriving with new dance footwear where i was still using my trainers. Nothing wrong with that but i wanted to get some dance trainers, i did so but it took a year and then only purchased online as the thought of going into dance shop and buying them brought on SA concerning what people would think of an old guy dancing!

When i got them it took another 6 months to actually start wearing them as i was constantly worried that people would see i was wearing them and judge me! It was a year before i started changing my shirt during a dance evening for the same reason.

Now i know these seem very irrational, and they are and i knew they were but that is what SA does. Simple thing that most people can do, even if with some slight anxiety, become huge mountains.

What this means is that the advice concerning, 'just talk to her' or 'ask if she going to the pub after' is very difficult and a big mountain to climb.

I enjoy my dancing just for dancing but when you dance with so many lovely ladies you cannot help but be attracted to some of them, but i am going to take the advice and approach it with a get to know and if any ladies are interested then hope they give the signal loud and clear away from the dance.

I know from experience that some ladies are not shy in coming forward, but then some are so i need to increase my social aspect of ceroc such as going to the pub after, which is another mountain to climb

Don't forget ladies if you dance with guy in N/NW london and when you speak to him he just nods and smiles it is not because he does not want to talk to you, it just that his mouth is refusing to work even though his brain is sending the signal and that fellow is most likely me

I am on an emotional journey but now i can dance on that journey instead of walking.

cheers

[Feelingpink]

but don't assume, because someone arrives with, or leaves with someone, they are "attached" to them ...

Loads of people travel to and from venues with friends, flatmates or neighbours.

[bigdjiver]

but don't assume, because someone arrives with, or leaves with someone, they are "attached" to them

Loads of people travel to and from venues with friends, flatmates or neighbours.

Girl flirts seriously with me in beginners claas, and with the next guy, then leaves with a third after with the class still running? I did wonder if they might be "working girls", but man was definitely attached.

I have worked on contract with a guy who would walk up to girls at traffic lights, tell them he was only in town for one night, and invite them for a meal and a trip to his hotel room. He was not obviously not averse to rejection. He usually did not lack for company for long. Two others wandered around Woolworths asking the lady assistants if they wanted to spend Christmas with them. They had a successful "shopping" trip.

It was quite a revelation to me. I come from the "mouth refusing to work" opposite end of the scale, and am still ticking loads of boxes on the dancing insecurities scale. Dancing has been good for me in that now I can ask anyone to dance, and I am lucky enough to not bother about the occasional avoidance or refusal at all.

We had two young ladies who arrived late "just to watch". They persistently refused everbody. I know from experience that those who are too scared to try MJ seldom return. At my fifth attempt I got a dance from each. In the end I had three dances with one of them, only to find that my recruiting drive was wasted, they both lived far away and were only in town for the night. It might be Lancashires gain.

[Lost Leader]

My very best advice to you is to completely ignore any 'signals' given during a dance, because they are most likely NOT 'signals' at all - just part of a confident/tactile person's dance style.

Dancing itself breaks all the normal 'rules' about personal space, eye contact and physical contact, so anything which happens within a dance can't be interpreted in the same way as regular body language.

I guess my style might be considered 'flirtatious', but it really is just the way I dance, and I dance like that with everyone, including men in their seventies/eighties and other women. It's just part of the dance.

So please - avoid confusion and do yourself a favour by only paying attention to 'signals' off the dancefloor!

That way you will minimise the likelihood of getting it wrong, and also you can just relax and enjoy the dancing for what it is.

And don't worry - you are very unlikely to 'miss' some crucial signal. If a woman is interested, you will somehow just find yourself chatting to her (because she will make sure that happens, without you even noticing..)

Spot on - great post. I was going to post something along these lines but I simply couldn't have put it better. One persons "I really fancy you" signal on the dance floor is simply another persons "Lost in the moment, normal rules don't apply" situation. It may appear flirty (or even a little outrageous) perhaps, but on the dance floor it more often than not means absolutely nothing in terms of a potential relationship off the dance floor.

[Maxine]

I know i may come across a dork but i was not always this bad, in fact in my youth i had SA under control and was successful with the ladies though not with relationships.

I know there are some who think that mental health is just a case of pulling you socks up. I know i thought that and due to this lived many years in denial of psychology issues relating to maternal rejection when very young, which resulted in a long period of depression that started in my late 20s, and which led to my SA getting so bad. I have the better of the depression now and am dealing with the SA.

U Dancing – I’m sorry to hear that you experience these problems through a long term mental health issues. I have worked in Mental Health for several years and the team that work with remit is for social inclusion of clients that have long and enduring mental health issues. I would say that you have taken a giant step forward by taking part in social dancing and that the doubts and missed read signals are what most other dancers have had to deal with at some stage and that experience now tells us that it is just a dance, so don’t beat yourself up over it or feel the need to explain. I thought your question was a very interesting and thought provoking. I may appear forward on the dance floor but this is not a true representation of my everyday behaviour, rather that I am using the medium of dance to act out one might say fantasises or generally lost in the music and the dance. I would not expect anyone to take me seriously as this all part of the dance game. I also take with a pinch of salt any comments that come my way

I hope you keep going dancing and keep enjoying it

[Astro]

Blimey, I did give the guy a hard time
(Not the type he was looking for though. Thankfully!)

If you listen to some different analysts you would hear that persistence is one of the traits that women seek in men. By instinct they look for life partners, someone who really wants to be with them. Part of the mating dance is rejecting, and having their suitor coming back nonetheless.

These are the dangerous men. They wear you down, be careful girls if you wanna stay a free agent.

[Battlecat]

I'm starting to feel like I'm missing out.

You certainly managed to make up for it at Cerocport ...

[kps]

You certainly managed to make up for it at Cerocport ...

Very soon Im going to have a bad name on here.

But what I did pick up from Southport is I'm completely oblivious to any singles the ladies give me.

[martingold]

Very soon Im going to have a bad name on here.

But what I did pick up from Southport is I'm completely oblivious to any singles the ladies give me.

did you mean singles or signals?????

as for the bad name dont worry mate you already have one