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Thread: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Right .... before someone points to a 'Advanced Blues' DVD and says, "Yes .. its there" ... let me explain my point.

    There has been an upswing in interest in Blues/Smooth dancing in our area. I've taught, along with a few others, intro to Blues classes. I've also got a workshop that covers off the next level ... but this is increasignly moves dependant though there is some technique.

    However, is there anything else? Short of showing more complex drops or shapes that can be slowed down to a Blues-type beat ... is there anything else that comes from within Blues itself that can be taught and/or labelled as 'advanced blues'?? Oh .. and can we avoid the perpetual debate about "what is blues"?

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Yes, there is. Just watch how the likes of Lucky dance, and it should be pretty obvious.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    ... is there anything else that comes from within Blues itself that can be taught and/or labelled as 'advanced blues'?? Oh .. and can we avoid the perpetual debate about "what is blues"?
    If you cannot tell or show somebody what blues dancing is, let alone "advanced" blues dancing is, how can you hope to teach it?

    For me blues dancing is about feeling rather than appearance. I can imagine a separate categories, exhibition blues dancing and competition blues dancing, which are about transmitting the feeling to judges and an audience, which could be taught. I can also believe that the techniques involved would help to transmit the feelings between partners. Otherwise, once the moves have been sorted out, I think that teaching blues dancing is about leaders teaching followers, and followers teaching leaders.

    More succinctly - for me trying to teach blues dancing is a bit like trying to teach making love.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Yes, there is. Just watch how the likes of Lucky dance, and it should be pretty obvious.
    With all due respect to Lucky's dancing, I thought there was a general consensus that what he does isn't Blues as we know it in the UK.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Would "micro blues" be considered 'advanced' ?

    After the basic magnetism within the connection has been established, then what is it that evolves the dancers into 'advanced' blues dancers?

    I propose Interpretation of the music. Isn't that what makes any dancer 'advanced'? Moves are just moves - anyone can learn them and reproduce them. It's the movements made within the moves - the "how" and "when" - that separates the best dancers from the rest of us.
    And I think that the 'when' almost dictates the 'how': a single beat or count within a move tends to mark a specific position within a move. But the space between counts and beats is a long time ~ an advanced dancer has many ways to fill this space.
    Blues dancing is danced to slower music, with bigger spaces, so Advanced Blues would be utilising the spaces to emphasise the music. If "advanced blues" does not exist, then neither does "advanced MJ"

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Yes, it's where you progress from swaying side by side to moving round slowly ACW

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    Cool Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    With all due respect to Lucky's dancing, I thought there was a general consensus that what he does isn't Blues as we know it in the UK.
    Yep! Couldn't agree more about the 'general consensus'; and it's a ****ing travesty!

    What Lucky dances IS Blues. Gus, I guess you need to ask yourself if you want to play it safe and teach more of the same ol' same ol' MJ-Blues, or if you want to abandon the move based MJ-Fusion-Type-Blues, and actually concentrate on teaching Blues techniques which will allow dancers to become real Blues dancers.

    If you watch some of the MJ-Blues routines and classes performed by some of the UK's "leading lights" in Blues and then compare and contrast that with what is happening in The States (the home of Blues dancing), and what's happening at Lindy/Blues nights. You'll be able to see what advanced Blues looks like first hand. A huge slow sweeping angelic pose may look beautiful, but it's not the Shake 'n Bake, Fish Tailin' or Ballroomin' ... mostly it's coreographed pap .. it's not learning to connect with your partner and the music, in fact more often than not it has very little to do with authentic Blues.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Would "micro blues" be considered 'advanced' ?
    I can't be bring myself to trawl Gargle Blaster Blues again, but from previous readings, I'm pretty sure the "authenticity gurus" there would say micro blues should be considered the spawn of the devil.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Isn't advanced blues, blues where you have the confidence and skill to dance using hardly any moves at all.....with a connection that is inexplicably linked to your partner and the music at the same time.

    A moment in time, which actually defies explanation as it it is something which is felt with the soul.
    I am a novice blues dancer (even though I dance in Blues rooms most of the time), but have on occasions been involved in what can only be described as moments in time, where my connection that I have had with my partner was SO in tune with the music and rhythm, it was magical.

    I cannot even start to try describe how to get there.

    Is there an advanced blues? yes there is but it is not something that can be taught very easily.
    It is something you feel within the music and is transmitted to those partners in dance who can feel the same "je ne sais quois" about the same music.

    It is never sordid or soiled but an uplifting experience shared by very few.

    But yearned after by many.

    Probably not a helpful explanation of my point of view but the best I can manage.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    More succinctly - for me trying to teach blues dancing is a bit like trying to teach making love.
    There are classes for this

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    There are classes for this
    and I am sure that they are very profitable.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    However, is there anything else? Short of showing more complex drops or shapes that can be slowed down to a Blues-type beat ... is there anything else that comes from within Blues itself that can be taught and/or labelled as 'advanced blues'??
    Step 1 find an advanced blues dancer/teacher.

    Step 2 book in an advanced blues workshop (which after all, will be filled with beginner and intermediate blues dancers, wondering what to do next)

    Step 3, sit back and watch the advanced blues dancer/teacher giving out insights to the next level.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    As well as teaching his twitchy Lindy-style Blues, Lucky teaches some techniques which should also work for MJ-style Blues.

    That said, why I would want to lead the breathing of my partner, I'm not quite sure...
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    With all due respect to Lucky's dancing, I thought there was a general consensus that what he does isn't Blues as we know it in the UK.
    If isn't blues.... with all due respect to you... perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as what it actually is?
    Myself, I'd say that I've seen very virtually no blues dancers in the UK to touch him.

    And the why of that brings me back to...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    ... but this is increasignly moves dependant though there is some technique.
    Is it my imagination, or does 'technique' seem to be a dirty word in the MJ lexicon? The answer is in the question... you want advanced blues? Technique is your answer. Learn it, live it, breathe it, become technique obsessed. That's your way forward. If you're thinking 'moves', you're headed in the wrong direction.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Oh .. and can we avoid the perpetual debate about "what is blues"?
    Right, a more serious response than my earlier contribution

    I don't see how you can 'sell' an advanced Blues workshop without having a pretty solid idea in your own head as to what Blues is (you may well have this Gus, I don't know) because that is the product you are giving to your punters. If it's the MJ style Blues then that's no problem provided that's what the people coming to your workshop are looking for. If those same people are expecting the more epileptic style of Blues then you could have a problem. Labelling is key here - in the same way that the term Swing can encompass a wide variety of dance styles so can Blues.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post

    More succinctly - for me trying to teach blues dancing is a bit like trying to teach making love.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    There are classes for this
    Just as you pick up new additions to your repetoire from various lovers, you pick up new additions to your dancing repetoire on the dancefloor with various dancers.

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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Is it my imagination, or does 'technique' seem to be a dirty word in the MJ lexicon? The answer is in the question... you want advanced blues? Technique is your answer. Learn it, live it, breathe it, become technique obsessed. That's your way forward. If you're thinking 'moves', you're headed in the wrong direction.
    I must admit to hate the occasional drive to put things in a beginner/intermediate/advanced camp. Personally I'm not sure I'll ever be an advanced dancer in anybody's book, but I've had some damn good 'blues' dances in my 3 years of dancing.

    Back to the point. If we must think about things in advanced terms then I'm with Stray. I think that while there are some moves etc that do lend themselves to looking good in blues dancing it is the techniques for building connection with your partner and the ability to draw inspiration from them and the music that marks the change to what others might think from the sidelines looks advanced. Personally though if it was me dancing it I'd probably not notice, because at the time I'd be lost in the connection...................

    Agent 000
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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Yep! Couldn't agree more about the 'general consensus'; and it's a ****ing travesty!
    ... In Your Humble Opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    What Lucky dances IS Blues.
    True .. is a form of Swing-based Blues ... but definitely not UK-style Blues.

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Gus, I guess you need to ask yourself if you want to play it safe and teach more of the same ol' same ol' MJ-Blues
    .... which would be interesting if you've ever seen me teach Blues ...

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    or if you want to abandon the move based MJ-Fusion-Type-Blues
    I think that true blues ISN'T actually moves based ....

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    and actually concentrate on teaching Blues techniques which will allow dancers to become real Blues dancers.
    ?????

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    ...misc rant
    with respect, I've been doing Blues for a fair old time and studied under N&N, Roger Chin, Simon Selmon and others ... and come to the opinion that the more I learn the less I know .... however, I think there is much to be developed in Blues AND taught .. its just that even with nearly 10 years teaching behind me I recognise my limitations. The best teachers have a true dance background and are able to convey techniques and shapes that I (as a amateur dance instructor) cannot. So I look for teaching models that enable me to teach better.

    I find it heart warming that you have such a passion for Blues after only a relatively short time on the dance scene ... but maybe a more balanced and, dare I say, informed view may help you progress? Then again maybe you are intent on teaching your view to others?

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Yes, there is. Just watch how the likes of Lucky dance, and it should be pretty obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Yep! Couldn't agree more about the 'general consensus'; and it's a ****ing travesty!
    i wish my body would move in some of the ways he can make his move

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Would "micro blues" be considered 'advanced' ?
    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Lucky teaches some techniques which should also work for MJ-style Blues.
    having just done lucky's micro blues masterclass at storm i can report it was the most intense lesson in connection i have ever had the pleasure to attend
    the feeling of euphoria and exhaustion when you finaly get this is amazing
    although i have never done meditation i would think its very similar

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    That said, why I would want to lead the breathing of my partner, I'm not quite sure...
    as with all blues it isnt about lead follow or moves
    its about connection from the heart between two people and the music which starts by connecting your breath
    as has been said several times on this forum its a conversation this surely starts with breath and the breath creates the momentum for the ultra small movements involved in micro blues

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    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
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    Re: Is there such a thing as 'Advanced Blues'?

    In my book no!

    On the proviso that advanced means sophisticated and/or complex moves, blues, to my mind, is about doing less (physically). [Although it can get very intense .... due to strong intention]

    Learning to do less is not advanced ... not in my book at any rate. As someone else has said ... it's more about listening (to music and each other) than anything technical.


    Show or display blues is, of course, a different matter (and a different dance IMHO, and with every other dance) and so, a different (if linked) skill.

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