I'm a lead and I always ask before I dip/drop
I'm a lead and I make an educated guess before I dip/drop rather than asking
I'm a follow and I expect always to be asked before I am dipped/dropped
I'm a follow and I am am happy to be dipped/dropped without asking
Yes... but most leaders don't lead drops. Someone can't be expected to qualify each request for a dance with a list of everything they don't want the other party to do.
I'd agree that if you've seen a leader leading a load of drops which you don't want to do and you ask him for a dance it might be a wise precaution to ask him not to lead them - but if you have no idea that a leader is a dropophile, it's a slightly different story. If I were to ask people to dance by saying 'Would you like to dance with me? But please refrain from using my leg as an object of sexual gratification.' just on the offchance that the other party might be so inclined (and yes - this has happened) - well - I think that would be considered a touch rude.
Particularly where you don’t know the lead. How would most of you guys feel if you asked someone to dance (or indeed they asked you) and they started saying “don’t do xyz”? It’s very negative, particularly if the guy wasn’t expecting to lead any dips or drops. And it might just put the idea in his head too. Sometimes it can be hard enough to get dances in the first place, never mind injecting negativity into the atmosphere before you’ve even started dancing.
As has been said though, if someone is renowned for leading them, and you really don’t want to do them, then it might be a good idea to pipe up. But generally I wouldn’t say it as they don’t happen very often.
The exception to that is if I have an injury that precludes them, and then I will say it to every single person I dance with – even grapevine footwork hurts if my back is playing up due to the twisting from the hips. At last year’s Storm, I had a badly sprained ankle and was very nervous about dancing at all. And although I said “no dips, drops or leans as I can’t take any weight on my right foot”, some guys still tried to do leans on that side (they found themselves on their own though, whilst I remained perpendicular giving them my best Paddington Bear hard stare!) I was happy to do them to the left though, but that didn’t happen very often. So even if you do say, sometimes you get ignored
I never thought I’d say this either, but it should be the same with any form of aerial/airstep. I’ve never done these in any workshops or classes, yet a couple of weeks ago at Greenwich, someone I’d never danced with before managed to haul me off the ground onto a sort of "sitting on his hip position" For those that have met me, you’ll know that this would be no easy feat Not sure if he was very brave or very mad… luckily it worked, but the potential for disaster, particularly as I had no clue what I was doing, was huge. And I did point out to him mid balance that I didn’t do such things normally.
Come to think of it, Greenwich is becoming a very interesting place for me to dance of late
I occasionally lead the odd dip, but only if it suits the music and only if I feel that the follower is capable/willing/in a fit state (there were a few at Eclipse that were barely able to walk unaided ).
Personally, I feel that gratuitous dipping/dropping adds nothing and creates an air of "look at me aren't I great, I can do drops". :WATT:
No I don't ask, because it is so very rare and because they are gentle dips where, by definition, the follower is controlling the depth of the dip (although I always make sure I can support them if they choose to throw themselves into it ).
Even more rare is a drop of any kind. I only ever do those with DT (and maybe Trouble even more infrequently) and even then she usually has to remind me that we haven't done it in ages.
In my experience, it's very much the exception to the rule as opposed to the norm, and as a result (rightly or wrongly) I've tended not to get too hung up on whether people ask me or not.
(I'd rather they didn't than go "oh S*** I meant to ask if you were OK with drops" right after we've carried one out - that tends to worry me).
It's fine at my local venue as few people do dips and drops on me (maybe I look too heavy to support ) but I've noticed when going to classes in other parts of the country there was a much higher frequency of people, who really didn't have the skill to pull off leading drops, would try and put me into them. What I found useful for me was just having a repertoire of ways to get out of doing them if someone with (for example) jelly arms put me in to them.
Not saying that follows should be expected to be able to do this, just that it's the way I've had to develop my dancing (and thigh muscles) to avoid accidents!
I was tipped upside down in an ariel at ISH. He didn't ask, but he did ask me the second time, I said yes. It was like wheee....
...remember pointing my toes at the ceiling!
I was, and still am clueless about ariels, but i reckon the follow doesn't need to know anything to be able to do them.
I wish more guys did this. I've lost count of the number of times I've been yanked sharply into a dip and pulled completely off balance. And I do mean dip and not drop.
Sorry to say this, but the worst are guys who are a lot shorter than me and don't have a clue where my centre of gravity is. Last one that did it was very short compared to me (top of his head came almost to my shoulder), put me into a dip which was fine, but then decided that since my head was still above his I wasn't low enough so pulled quite hard. I couldn't maintain my own weight and balance (which I am quite good at doing given the chance). He didn't have the strength or technique to take my weight at all and nearly pulled me right over on top of him
And no, he didn't ask beforehand.
Having said that, I have been put into drops by guys even shorter than him, and because they've had good technique (although at that time I didn't have a clue) it's worked.
Sorry Astro, but I'm sure that can't be true.
There's plenty of technique from the follow's side in dips and drops that prevents injury on both sides. I didn't get comfortable with them until someone who is pretty good showed me several and how to hold myself - even now I'm not that good.
I'd have thought that it was even more likely in aerials as the chances of flailing arms and legs causing problems is quite high. Any experts care to comment?
No, I had never done any aerial training or any type of aerials at all. Still can't remember where my head and arms were.I'd have thought that it was even more likely in aerials as the chances of flailing arms and legs causing problems is quite high. Any experts care to comment?
PS. It's a shame this poll is not an open poll.
I like to be asked whether I want to do dips or drops.
Last edited by Astro; 25th-February-2009 at 02:38 PM.
My take:
The majority of aerials require both people to know the move and to have practiced together.
There is a smaller number of aerials that can be done provided both people know the move.
There is a (much) smaller number of aerials that can be done if the lead is sufficiently strong and the follower doesn't know the move provided the follow doesn't panic. (However, it will generally look rubbish if the follower doesn't know the move, or at least how to hold herself in the air).
There is a vanishingly small number of aerials that can be done even if the follower has a complete panic and decides to grab something that they shouldn't during the move. (In fact, I can't think of any, but I'm sure someone will think of one).
Even in proper workshop conditions, you'd be surprised how often the last one comes about. I've done "easy" aerials I was completely comfortable with, only to find it all went wrong because the follow decided to grab my leg half way through the move.
I've had the opposite situation. I'd been on the floor with a partner that I dance with regularly, and I'd used several dips and drops. As we finished the tracks I was asked to dance by another lady who I've danced with before but frankly never managed to find any real connection (a situation that stops me doing dips or drops). We had what I thought was quite a reasonable 2-track dance - and the connection was actually better than it had been, but unfortunately since I'd not chosen to do any dips or drops she told me off as we came of the floor 'why don't you drop me, you do it with everyone else?
I tried to fudge it - and told her that I only did dips and drops with partners I knew well - but was caught out since she'd obviously seen me doing all sorts of stuff with a visitor that night who I'd never danced with before but with whom there was an instant connection. In the end I was forced to tell her the truth, that I didn't feel that as a dance 'partnership' we were tight enough that doing dips and drops would be safe for either one of us. She's not danced with me since.
Like CJ I've had some back problems recently, I find it is very convenient to mention this....................................
And did you feel used?
I danced with one follow who stepped into my side - face onto me - then put both hands on my shoulder as she straddled me and squatted down then seemed to start humping my right leg. I'd never understood the reality of what my wife has had to put up with in some of the dances she's had with the pervy men until that moment.
Agent 000
Licensed to Dance
I find that a lot of men only do dips and regularly. These are common and most do it without asking.
Drops on the other hand are generally always asked first. I cant remember ever being dropped and not asked first, even by people who know me and i will only say yes to people i feel absolutely safe with and who i know are more than capable of doing a drop properly.
There are very few leads who can actually drop properly though in my experience and most end up hurting you or putting you into a position that just looks...... like you just shat yourself.
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