Problem solving.. what to do when the main room closes, and the influx to the COZ

[Lory]

I think what this discussion demonstrates is what we all know - and that is you can't please all of the people all of the time.

A poll might be a good idea

On the flip side many people don't have a regular dance partner, are cautious of dancing close ~snip~ it's important that a range of music is played for them to start to feel their way - yes

Hmm I get your drift

[TA Guy]

possibly the wrong dj was in there but also possibly you have not had a good chill out dance cos all you have been taught is to lead moves
Next time you get a chance or if you see her at a venue grab someone like kel warminster get her to show you how to dance blues

Lovely dancer. I have actually danced with her once, at Bramshaw I think. Tho it wasn't Blues. It was more MJ with a bit of play, cos it was yer typical Ceroc thump thump music

In answer to your... question or assumption? Not sure... I do what every other half decent dancer does, I mix 'n' match moves, shorten, lengthen them, adapt them.
I certainly don't feel insecure enough about my dancing that I have to deny using moves, every single dancer I have ever seen, at freestyles, at weekenders, over fifteen years, has used moves and nothing but moves... except two!. This is the same as every dance in the swing genre. They might call it something different, 'patterns' for example, but it's all move based.

It's not what you call them, it's what you do with them that counts.

[TA Guy]

Yeah, I'd do the same if I were to hear bland, fast, thumpy thumpy beginner music....

You prolly think you got me there, but actually, I too rate bland fast thump thump as bad as that elevator stuff in the Blues room

It is possible to have 'bad' (by whatever personal definition you wish to apply) slow music as well as bad fast music ya know

[martingold]

I think what this discussion demonstrates is what we all know - and that is you can't please all of the people all of the time.

As regards Swish Martin I can't comment as I wasn't there and really I was talking in general terms about most weekenders where the COZ room shuts around 6am+.

All I've done is explain how I feel and explained the rationale behind that. I'm lucky in that I have a very understanding partner who is also my perfect partner to dance with when we seek each other out inbetween other dances. I'm also very comfortable in the Blues/COZ environment. On the flip side many people don't have a regular dance partner, are cautious of dancing close and are subsequently less comfortable in the small hours - and for those people I think it's important that a range of music is played for them to start to feel their way - yes, we could just chuck them all in at the deep end and tell them to like it or lump it, but I prefer the use of funky water wings and a gentle but firm guiding thigh...

I'm just advocating a bit of variety and a bit of flexibility that's all so that more people overall have a better time.

my comments were about swish not about COZ rooms in general

I agree with variety etc but when something is advertised and sold as one thing yet something totally opposite is delivered you would be upset as well
I bought time in a chill out room yet was delivered soulless pop music for the last two hours of the night (apart from one or two tracks)
yes i am fussy i expect to get what i pay for which was a chill out room untill 4 am

Kieth furness (photoartist) john baker, mark and rachel all played faster tracks but they all had something to play with and therefore kept the COZ people dancing as well as entertaining the people from the main room

as for getting others to dip their toes in the water thats really great but why stop me from dancing in a room i have occupied all evening just so that others can come in from the room that they prefer (your words were i can sit and socialise)


i love your music rocky (generally) it almost always has something to play with and i am always pleased to see you take up your position behind the decks i dont normally like to dance to silverfox's music but am ok with the fact that others do as that is personal choice neither of you play boring tracks though which means when i went to your utopia dusk till dawn i was entertained for 11 hours non stop even though i didnt want to dance the whole time
I will certainly go to another utopia event when one comes up that fits my life

[martingold]

It is possible to have 'bad' (by whatever personal definition you wish to apply) slow music as well as bad fast music ya know

i could not agree more there were several tracks played by various dj's over the weekend that were un-danceable as they were bland
I also enjoy dancing to fast music so long as it isnt bland thumpy thumpy stuff

[Rocky]

...my comments were about swish not about COZ rooms in general..

Yes I know Martin, but Twirly's was specifically referring to Storm last year - so I generalised things as it was her I was actually replying to.

...Kieth furness (photoartist) john baker, mark and rachel all played faster tracks but they all had something to play with and therefore kept the COZ people dancing as well as entertaining the people from the main room... i love your music rocky (generally) it almost always has something to play with and i am always pleased to see you take up your position behind the decks i dont normally like to dance to silverfox's music but am ok with the fact that others do as that is personal choice neither of you play boring tracks though which means when i went to your utopia dusk till dawn i was entertained for 11 hours non stop even though i didnt want to dance the whole time
I will certainly go to another utopia event when one comes up that fits my life

I wasn't referring to the extremes you appeared to have experienced at Swish as I was answering Twirly's post (that was sort of the problem of initially having all of this discussion on the wrong thread) and from your comments we do seem to be in agreement regarding variety as displayed by the DJ's you mention - I also appreciate your kind comments.

You also did exactly the right thing in voicing your concerns directly to the organizers - at the end of the day we DJ's do try to please as many people as we can, but occasionally can get it wrong. I'm sorry you were unhappy, but it does appear that you did have a good time overall.

[Lory]

my comments were about swish not about COZ rooms in general

Yes I know Martin, but Twirly's was specifically referring to Storm last year - so I generalised things as it was her I was actually replying to.

Yes sorry guys that's why I created this thread, to make it more of a general discussion, as this is problem that occurs at most weekenders, whoever they're organized by

[fletch]

Damn, I've taken up both but I still can't manage to keep a straight face when I dance.

Is there no hope for me?

maybe your the exception to the rule hun.

[martingold]

Yes I know Martin, but Twirly's was specifically referring to Storm last year - so I generalised things as it was her I was actually replying to.

ok Rocky fair point but surely it still comes down to advertising one thing and delivering something else
If i see chill out room advertised from and too a certain time then thats what i am paying for and not just an extension to the main room when that closes

If you want to keep everybody happy you need to find a smaller hall at a weekender so that the left overs from the main room have somewhere as well you should never allow it to take over an already up and running COZ
as there will be people in there who have paid and are looking for pure chill out music there may not be so many but they are customers as well

As i see it there is a definite swing towards chill out room music most people i talk to want to learn to dance to it but say they cant as they dont know how to slow down the moves they think its just doing ceroc slowly
This i think is something that needs sorting out in general

I am currently a huge fan of snow white having been to two of her freestyles one pure blues and one general music she didnt play a single duff track in either all music being fast or slow had heart
If you haven't done so before go to one of her nights i know you will enjoy it

[martingold]

Damn, I've taken up both but I still can't manage to keep a straight face when I dance.

you always have a straight face when dancing with me

or was it one of pure agony??

[Lory]

you always have a straight face when dancing with me

or was it one of pure agony??

that's my attempt at SEXY, don't ya know!!

[martingold]

that's my attempt at SEXY, don't ya know!!

attempt
surely that comes naturally to you

[ant]

I think that this discussion demonstrates is what we all know - and that is you can't please all of the people all of the time.

I think this is an oportunity to please all the people.

I am more than happy to stay in a main room later in the night when it empties out. You get lots of room and can really go at the music on a nice floor in good surroundings and move around to your hearts content. It is one of the things I really look forward to at a weekender because you rarely get this chance at any other time.

I agree that the atmosphere changes when the room empties out but this may not neccessarily for the worse and if it was people would vote with their feet and leave. I find that this is when the DJ's play their fastest and funkiest music because they know the dancers have the space.

I'm just advocating a bit of variety and a bit of flexibility that's all so that more people overall have a better time

I can understand when numbers get down to maybe 20-30 still dancing and the main room shuts but when there are 100-150 in there it seems to be a rather premature closing and I would suggest it is the organisers that need to show some flexability in these circumstances, if presumably it is a predetermined timetable that dictates the closure.

Not only are you upsetting the people being moved but such a large influx of people in the COZ room can only have an adverse effect on the atmosphere there, as well as physically interrupting the dancers already in there and it cetainly changes the dynamics as most people are stating.

Just keeping both rooms open would please everyone.

[Astro]

As you know, I've been known to play soul and disco in the COZ occasionally and for many people it really worked - but of course there were some people grumbilng on the sidelines. For those who spoke to me my response was to relax and have a drink because there was 3 hours of superb Blues/Chill to follow.

I love soul and disco, but couldn't we have a huge amount more of it in the Main Room?

The other thing is that when I'm referring to 'up-beat' I don't mean pop -

but some DJ's might be tempted.

And as an example of that there's funky tunes like Superstition.

Superstition is ace.

ok Rocky fair point but surely it still comes down to advertising one thing and delivering something else
If i see chill out room advertised from and too a certain time then thats what i am paying for and not just an extension to the main room when that closes

As i see it there is a definite swing towards chill out room music most people i talk to want to learn to dance to it but say they cant as they dont know how to slow down the moves they think its just doing ceroc slowly
This i think is something that needs sorting out in general

A solution is to play more of it in the main Room. This would get people learning in a non threatening place. 'Fire', which I like, gets airtime in the main room, why not play more tracks of this ilk in there?

I would spend more time in there I didn't have to listen to wall to wall overplayed pop.

[kps]

Sorry I haven't read much of this thread



Looking back to Saturday night at Swish and now having time to think I personally think the music was right, I know you (Martin) and one or two that was there might will disagree. But I think the DJ judged the room perfectly for the majority and played the music to those 30 or so people that were still in there. Pretty much every was dancing and was having a great time.

[Cruella]

A solution is to play more of it in the main Room. This would get people learning in a non threatening place. 'Fire', which I like, gets airtime in the main room, why not play more tracks of this ilk in there?

That's actually a good idea, instead of changing the atmosphere in the COZ room when the main room closes, why not gradually bring down the main room for the last half hour before it shuts?

[Lory]

I've added a poll..


its a tricky one!

[martingold]

Sorry I haven't read much of this thread



Looking back to Saturday night at Swish and now having time to think I personally think the music was right, I know you (Martin) and one or two that was there might will disagree. But I think the DJ judged the room perfectly for the majority and played the music to those 30 or so people that were still in there. Pretty much every was dancing and was having a great time.

yeah but my main point about this is that the dj did not play what was advertised and what i paid for
the main room people that were in the room would of course have been happy as erick was playing to them rather than the chill that was already in the room
why should the people in the chill room be ousted just because the main room is closed (unless of course you advertise this is what is going to happen)

[Rocky]

Not only are you upsetting the people being moved but such a large influx of people in the COZ room can only have an adverse effect on the atmosphere there, as well as physically interrupting the dancers already in there and it cetainly changes the dynamics as most people are stating.

Just keeping both rooms open would please everyone.

A solution is to play more of it in the main Room. This would get people learning in a non threatening place. 'Fire', which I like, gets airtime in the main room, why not play more tracks of this ilk in there?

I would spend more time in there I didn't have to listen to wall to wall overplayed pop.

That's actually a good idea, instead of changing the atmosphere in the COZ room when the main room closes, why not gradually bring down the main room for the last half hour before it shuts?

They're all good points but we're in danger here of having a DJ gestapo that sets out a very specific set of rules that Dj's have to stick to, and no-one appreciates that because as many people would dislike it as would like it. I much prefer that it's the DJ's job to read the room and act appropriately because then we have the majority's interest at heart rather than a vocal minority. It would also be pretty difficult to police.

As regards the main room staying on later: well from all my 8 years of attending weekenders I've always personally considered that the current closing times are appropriate in most cases. The atmosphere dwindles and in the end you would be playing to a private club of 30 people if it continued much later, which doesn't make any sense with regard to costs, lighting, staffing etc. etc. I also believe that published closing times are way better than 'whenever everyone goes home' times. Dancers can pace themselves accordingly, as can DJ's both with tempos and content, and the night has a proper conclusion.


Then we have this...

Looking back to Saturday night at Swish and now having time to think I personally think the music was right, I know you (Martin) and one or two that was there might will disagree. But I think the DJ judged the room perfectly for the majority and played the music to those 30 or so people that were still in there. Pretty much every was dancing and was having a great time.

yeah but my main point about this is that the dj did not play what was advertised and what i paid for
the main room people that were in the room would of course have been happy as erick was playing to them rather than the chill that was already in the room why should the people in the chill room be ousted just because the main room is closed (unless of course you advertise this is what is going to happen)

I can see both sides.

However, I would say that I would always prefer spontaneous music sets that please the majority, to music played by rote. But that's just me.

[Lost Leader]

Extremely interesting thread with a lot of thoughtful posts. One thing is for sure, this is an extremely difficult thing to get "right", if there is such a thing. Any DJ that can manage such a transition well (in the opinion of most people) deserves respect. However, as Rocky says you cannot please all the people all of the time and that is especially true at this sort of juncture in the evening.

There might perhaps be some merit in the main room and blues room DJ's co-ordinating to a degree about what is played (main room DJ slows things down a touch in the last half an hour whilst blues room DJ speeds things up a little) but even if this could be achieved some punters still wouldn't be happy.

Look on the bright side though - one thing this whole issue guarantees is that there will be something nice and easy to moan about when we all write our aftermath posts. It therefore saves us from having to think that hard or even make stuff up - not that we'd do that of course