Well, I have no idea where newbie Westies are supposed to try out newfound skills. Not welcome at MJ venues, from the sound of this thread. But in our experience, the reception hasn't been as icy as we have just experienced at our first WCS post-lesson freestyle. I guess, as a species naturally higher on the evolutionary scale of dance, newly-hatched WCS dancers are expected to emerge onto the dance floor replete with a basic subset of skills, and definitely without any nerves or awkwardness so annoyingly present in lesser species of beginner dancer.
We did not expect to be asked to dance. The other beginners had beaten a hasty retreat once the freestyle began (with only one other exception as far as I noticed). Against my hubby's better judgement, I insisted that we stay behind so we could practise what we'd just learned in the lesson. (We've discovered that if we don't, we may just as well not bother going in the first place.) I know that the dance floor was tiny, but I was hoping that we wouldn't be begrudged our slice of the floorboards for the first part of the evening. (Especially since, on a few occasions, several people were chatting and drinking in the middle of said coveted dance-space!) I suppose, despite all I've read, I was still hoping that the same sort of encouraging courtesy would be offered a new leader, as you frequently find at MJ venues, (when experienced followers dance with awkward beginners, and actually smile). Jon was asked to dance, twice. They were too polite to stalk off promptly when he informed them he was a beginner, but would do his best. One of them was not too polite to rush off without a word, before the notes of the final chord died.
I am not sure what we did wrong. There must be some tango-esque etiquette that we are not aware of. During the lesson, everyone was friendly, tolerant of our ineptness; smiles effortlessly accompanied their “Thank you”s as the rotation proceeded. (Hmmn, p’raps just happy to see the back of us, and move on to some-one who knew what they were doing? Say that if you must, but my point is that during the lesson, everyone managed to make us feel welcome) However, once the freestyle began, the unspoken “My God, what are they still doing here?!!!” rang out, clearly enough!
JCB, one of the best posts I've read for a while.
I've talked about moving on to do some WCS for a little while and several of my friends have basically given me the same message as your post conveys. Lessons are fine but after that the newbies are basically left at the side. One very nice couple that have MJ'd at our place, and have UK Smoooth'd, gave up after a month or so of being cold-shouldered.
I'm sure that not all WCS venues are like this so come on you experienced Westies, where does a potential newbie go that is warm and welcoming? Maybe the topic for a new thread.............
Agent 000
Licensed to Dance
Totaly agree with this post, JCB post was worthy of rep and an exchange of PM's
I do belive, sadly some of the Westies that have 'steped up' from MJ are in denial about the way they are perceived, the problem is you will never change them, some of them don't care how it looks, but there are most that do, its the ones that don't care that give the majority a bad name, and IMO it would only be a matter of a few 'tweaks' and it could be resolved.
For me, part of my problem is when you get someone new asking for a dance with some one more experienced and saying go easy on me, that's not stop me and give me a lesson half way through the dance, or keep counting me in and out.........and 1,2,3,4,5, and 6 just dance I will do my best
The Bristol class is very warm and welcoming for newbies in my opinion. A newbie came with me a few weeks ago and was up and dancing with all levels of dancer during the social dancing after the class. Ok, so you might have a few who up a bit up themselves wherever you go (not just in WCS or in dance but in life in general). I think if you appear friendly and approachable then the decent people will be the same with you. If they're not then would you really want to dance/chat to them anyway?
You get drilled in the basic rhythms at the start of every lesson and the teacher is very clear that there is only "one teacher" in the room and unsolicated advice shouldn't be given. If there's something that's not working tell him and he can correct it for the class. It saves anyone from feeling that they are being criticised by the person they are dancing with. Another plus for me as a lady is that the teacher is in the rotation so he can help you as you dance with him. Oh and the lessons are always soooooo entertaing.
Another thing is that maybe if people aren't approached for dances during the social time it might be due to body language rather than any perceptions of ability. If I sat looking nervous, arms-crossed, not smiling etc etc I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't asked to dance as much as the next newbie who is smiling away, laughing if they get it wrong or right, asking people to dance and generally looking like they're loving it and wanting to dance it.
It's hard but I think you do have to put yourself out there a bit - if you look like you want to try to learn to dance it/get better at dancing it and make an effort to ask people then it should work the other way too. I'm still new to it myself but am getting better at seeking the dances (and getting asked). I even asked Brent this weekend
I wasn't at the WCS freestyle that JCB refers to but if it was the Saturday one I would have expected that most of those who are the usual focus of such perceptions would have been at ICE, Cat's freestyle event which was held on the same night.
Maybe someone else who was at Mikey's thing could give their impression of the event?
I went to both as I had two friends staying overnight for Cat and Paul's workshop the next day.
Mikey's doo was filled with a mixture of dancers from the WCS scene, there were only a few that I have not seen on my travels. As Rob pointed out, most of the dancers that have been doing WCS for the last 3 - 4 years were at Dorley Reach.
Mikey's doo was very busy and I think any newbies would have been intimidated in that situation as there wasn't a great deal of room. As the room was small for the amount of dancers there was going to be a number of people sitting out which would give the impression that you were being watched. If your new and unsure this type of situation could well make you feel paranoid about your dancing.
JCB, I look forward to a dance or two when we next meet up
On a personal note I have seen that at WCS doo's we need to improve our spacial awareness and improve our Floorcraft. I have spoken to Cat and Paul concerning this issue. Hopefully in the near future Paul and Cat will be doing a number of lessons to improve this, which will help out at mixed Jive events.
Lastly in the Boudoir at Camber I had a number of Fab WCS dances in a very small slot where we were enclosed by MJ'ivers with out any mishaps. This shows it can be done with good floor craft on both sides
I felt quite sad when I read your post, that your experience of classes have been so negative and unfriendly.
Nobody could have struggled (and still is)more with WCS than me for some reason my feet and brain don’t like communicating but I have been to 2 different organisations one run by Mikeyr and the other KevF and Lory. Both evenings are really friendly (unfortunately my dancing does not live up to the standard). I always tell everyone that I am an inept learner and to date they have been really helpful and patient.
As for freestyles and weekenders I don’t see any problem with MJ and WCS they can coexist
So my advice change the class if you come away feeling negative, after all dancing is supposed to be fun
Aaaack!
Should have made it clearer:
I was talking about the freestyle afterwards!
The class was brilliant: clear, instructive, funny, welcoming, friendly, everyone smiled, everyone said "thank you" (despite the fact there was precious little to thank me for).
But when the freestyle started, a large portion of the previously friendly crowd appeared, from our perspective, to transform. Some were still smiling, but many became self-absorbed, distant, some downright inconsiderate or unfriendly. But we may have been doing something intolerable in WCS etiquette. Or we may have been mis-reading the behaviour. But to me, moving into the slot where we were dancing, standing and having a chat, on a crowded dance floor, is taking the proverbial!
Not feeling "under the microscope" at all; rather, invisible! Which doesn't bother me (our WCS is not so easy on the eye, just yet ). Except, since we were invisible, leaders and followers were wombling freely into the bit of the track Jon was about to send me. A little allowance, please, for beginners who are finding it hard enough to remember the patterns, let alone change on the trot to avoid a collision?
... not so sure about that, at least, not mixing on the same crowded dance floor. Some-one else has mentioned that the social dance conventions of MJ & WCS clash. Can't find the post now, but if I understand what they said, MJ tends to move within the dance-space as it becomes available, WCS tends to stick to a slot, and expects the space they left behind at one end to be there when they get back. This could lead to... misunderstandings.
When a good "practice" track comes on at an MJ venue we tuck ourselves in a corner, but we'd never try to WCS on a crowded MJ floor.
I am looking forward to that dance, Gerry! - V.
I don't really like commenting on events I did not attend but it seems as though the venue may have been on the small side for the number of attendees. It happens occasionally and I don't like it when it does - I much prefer a bit of space for dancing WCS and I will often sit out rather than add to a very crowded floor. It can lead to a bit of discontent generally and to people who are not dancing spilling over onto dancefloor space.
Must say pips there was no aggrevation that I saw between WCS (Devils work) and jivers/blues dancers at Southport. The only time I have spouted off about it was at Skeggy, where it was a nightmare. At Southport I believe the issue was handled very well and I even danced with a few westies( Devils work). The Batgirl even did a WCS (Devils work) class, I could not believe it. She actually enjoyed it, unbelievable enough some of my favourite dancers are westies (Devils work), ie Lory, Gerry, robd I am all of a tither here.
DTS XXX XXX
To be honest babe I think the issue at Skeggy was the music piped into the blues room from an adjacent elevator, twas not westie or blues just chewing gum for your ears. Ceroc has nailed the music IMHO, it was stunning all weekend with sometimes inspiring music in all rooms at the same time. At one point I was about to leave when Stokie delivered a message from the dj, OXO, to put down my coat and continue dancing, well who am I to let sore knees and feet on fire stop me from dancing. Never stopped dancing all weekend with not one bump or crash or a cross word all weekend. You just can't beat that with a big stick.
DTS XXX XXX
for me the main issue at Skeggie was the 'westies' were in a dark corner some had there backs to the room seemingly all in a huddle, not acceserble at all, at S.P. you pass through them to get to the main room or the bar and you get a feeling there aprochable.
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