WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

[fletch]

Well, not all of them.

no not all just most hehe

has talked previously of childcare problems preventing her getting to as many weekenders as she might wish.

:

just bring them with you

fletch seen how many people she can pi$$ off in one day

i havn't had an infraction to day but there's still time

[Magic Hans]

... or you will be tarried with the same brush. ...

That's the last thing I'd want!!! To be tarried by any brush!!! lol

[fletch]

That's the last thing I'd want!!! To be tarried by any brush!!! lol

don't you start

[David Bailey]

That's the last thing I'd want!!! To be tarried by any brush!!! lol

Blimey, no kidding, it's a scary concept.

[FoxyFunkster]

I am guessing no-one sees themselves as the authority you asked for?

I have heard from some people who have been to conventions in the States and also some of the local bar dancing there that the floor spaces are small and crowded with dancers and thus the WCS does have to be danced in a small area. Haven't been so cannot comment myself. Mikey? Caro? Foxy?



Yes, theoretically. But good principles being taught and good principles being learnt (and then practiced) do not necessarily follow. How many classes have you been to that you haven't then taken away and put into practice the material from?

There's also the issue similar to when you sit in slow moving traffic - if you leave a safe gap in front between you and the next car you can be certain that someone will cut in and take that space. If you become a nice, safe, space aware dancer the chances are that someone else will still collide into you - I realise that doesn't mean we shouldn't try but it's where idealism meets pragmatism.

I`m certainly no expert on floor craft, however the fact that in rarely gets taught in classes at MJ classes must be a factor!

I do find it strange though that as a ceroc teacher, i demo a routine which is slotted then teach the routine which is slotted, i then most weeks says to the class, men please try and dance slotted and try and be aware of people around you, as floor craft is important, but then the reality is, most people come to ceroc for a good time, they generally do not want too much technique or too much to think about, so in the main people just end up dancing in circles and with little disregard for others, In the states it`s hardly a problem because everyone dances in the same direction and also i never see people walk across the dance floor with no regard for others.

One last point, Paul Warden does teach the men during class to try and stretch the dance and use as much of the dance floor as possible, now this is great when dancing a spotlight in a competition but it is of little use during social dancing, The answer to the question can people dance WCS short or in confined spaces is of course they can, but like all social dances, as long as you are aware of what is going on around you at all times, it is of course easier said than done!

For what it is worth, whether you dance WCS, Blues,Slow Ceroc, or whatever dance form i think it is important to find the solution to accomdate all dance styles, because the strength of the blues room at southport was the fact that there was everyone present dancing all styles to amazing music, that has to be the goal for Skeggy IMHO.

[dave the scaffolder]

When I run the review classes at Stevenage I allways chat about floor craft. I emphasise that if a collision occurs allways apologise, no matter who is at fault. An apology there and then stops the bad feelings straight away. Floor craft needs to be taught to everyone at all classes, all it needs is a very quick chat about it.

DTS XXX XXX

[FoxyFunkster]

When I run the review classes at Stevenage I allways chat about floor craft. I emphasise that if a collision occurs allways apologise, no matter who is at fault. An apology there and then stops the bad feelings straight away. Floor craft needs to be taught to everyone at all classes, all it needs is a very quick chat about it.

DTS XXX XXX

[StokeBloke]

There is a simple solution to all of this:

Take a couple of rolls of white tape and before the freestyle starts mark out the floor like a car park. The Westies dance in the 'car parking spaces'... and the MJers dance in the lane where the cars would drive around and maneuver into the spaces.

We give a couple of people peaked caps to issue infractions for anyone seen dancing outside their designated zones. Two tickets in the same evening and you get your left foot clamped for an hour (although you probably couldn't tell if a blues dancer had one foot nailed to the floor at times ).

If you think this sounds extreme and babyish... you should take a trip back through this (and the other Skeggy aftermath) thread and re-read some of the name calling and disrespectful remarks made about your fellow dancers.

As an aside to the above I would like to say this. I cannot dance west coast swing. But I do dance in quite a slotted way, I adore some WCS moves and I try to reflect the style of my partner to make a dance as easy and pleasant as I can for the both of us. At Skegness my very best dance and my most horrific dance of the weekend were both with Westies. The worst one left me honestly feeling like I wanted to give up dancing and go home (I mean home, not back to my chalet).

West Coast Swing dancers (like MJ dancers) are ALL individuals, they make individual choices. I know I have probably been as guilty as anyone else in the past, but I will make a concerted effort in future not to generalise about Westies.

I think that part of the problem is one of perception. People who have moved into WCS usually invest lots of time, effort and money into it. DVDs, classes, privates, remotely located freestyles, international air fares... as such I understand why they would take things a little more seriously. I also understand why, when a bunch of them are at the same location they would gravitate to the area playing the most suitable music and dance with each other. I understand also that the ones taking a rest would want to lean on the ballastraud and scrutinise the WCS dancing that was going on. I also understand why this could be percieved to someone not involved in that scene as a selfish clique of hotshot 'jordan & tat' wannabes. Perceptions gained in ignorance are usually wrong though. Maybe they're just a bunch of mates dancing together and enjoying the fact that they're all together for a change.... y'know.... like MJers do at weekenders.

I was saddened to see the Westies being 'banished' to be honest. But I did really love what happened to the music when they were sent to Arthur's Naughty Corner. Much later when they drifted back my evening got even better. I am glad I didn't go home. Because as I said earlier my best (non-Twirlie Bird) dance happened just after they got back. Now, let's get this sorted... where's my white floor tape?

[FoxyFunkster]

There is a simple solution to all of this:

Take a couple of rolls of white tape and before the freestyle starts mark out the floor like a car park. The Westies dance in the 'car parking spaces'... and the MJers dance in the lane where the cars would drive around and maneuver into the spaces.

We give a couple of people peaked caps to issue infractions for anyone seen dancing outside their designated zones. Two tickets in the same evening and you get your left foot clamped for an hour (although you probably couldn't tell if a blues dancer had one foot nailed to the floor at times ).

If you think this sounds extreme and babyish... you should take a trip back through this (and the other Skeggy aftermath) thread and re-read some of the name calling and disrespectful remarks made about your fellow dancers.

As an aside to the above I would like to say this. I cannot dance west coast swing. But I do dance in quite a slotted way, I adore some WCS moves and I try to reflect the style of my partner to make a dance as easy and pleasant as I can for the both of us. At Skegness my very best dance and my most horrific dance of the weekend were both with Westies. The worst one left me honestly feeling like I wanted to give up dancing and go home (I mean home, not back to my chalet).

West Coast Swing dancers (like MJ dancers) are ALL individuals, they make individual choices. I know I have probably been as guilty as anyone else in the past, but I will make a concerted effort in future not to generalise about Westies.

I think that part of the problem is one of perception. People who have moved into WCS usually invest lots of time, effort and money into it. DVDs, classes, privates, remotely located freestyles, international air fares... as such I understand why they would take things a little more seriously. I also understand why, when a bunch of them are at the same location they would gravitate to the area playing the most suitable music and dance with each other. I understand also that the ones taking a rest would want to lean on the ballastraud and scrutinise the WCS dancing that was going on. I also understand why this could be percieved to someone not involved in that scene as a selfish clique of hotshot 'jordan & tat' wannabes. Perceptions gained in ignorance are usually wrong though. Maybe they're just a bunch of mates dancing together and enjoying the fact that they're all together for a change.... y'know.... like MJers do at weekenders.

I was saddened to see the Westies being 'banished' to be honest. But I did really love what happened to the music when they were sent to Arthur's Naughty Corner. Much later when they drifted back my evening got even better. I am glad I didn't go home. Because as I said earlier my best (non-Twirlie Bird) dance happened just after they got back. Now, let's get this sorted... where's my white floor tape?

Stokie for Prime Minister i say!

[robd]

my best (non-Twirlie Bird) dance .....

Saved yourself from the wrath of TB just in time there Stokie

My biggest surprise of the weekend was not seeing you two in Jaks as we finished up in the early hours of Sunday morning - where were you?

[StokeBloke]

Saved yourself from the wrath of TB just in time there Stokie

Who, how, what, where, when..... as if!!

My biggest surprise of the weekend was not seeing you two in Jaks as we finished up in the early hours of Sunday morning - where were you?

We were working on our connection........

[robd]

We were working on our connection........

I presume you've nailed the 'In and Out' from your Ceroc beginner's DVD?

[StokeBloke]

I presume you've nailed the 'In and Out' from your Ceroc beginner's DVD?

...and by using the 'non-Twirlie Bird' line I managed to avoid The Cleaver

[bigdjiver]

I got the impression that the problem for some people was WCS in the blues room.

For me blues dancing is about ambience. The music might be shared as danceable by both, but, without being there, I cannot help but feel that people dancing WCS, or normal MJ for that matter, would tend to destroy the ambience for me.

[Caro]

I don't know about WCS at all, but I do know that MJ can be done in tight spaces quite easily without bumping into people.
I do know a little about Lindy hop too and looking at youtube vids, you'd think that it needs a lot of space, but it doesn't. It also can be done in very tight spaces without upsetting anyone.
Can an authority on WCS confirm whether it can be done smaller or not?

I am guessing no-one sees themselves as the authority you asked for?

I have heard from some people who have been to conventions in the States and also some of the local bar dancing there that the floor spaces are small and crowded with dancers and thus the WCS does have to be danced in a small area. Haven't been so cannot comment myself. Mikey? Caro? Foxy?

well yes of course you can dance wcs in small spaces (as the case in most local bar dances i've seen), it is less enjoyable imo but absolutely feasible, i.e. less extension (& shorter frame), no bending the slot, no travelling patterns, more closed position dancing.
Passed some point though, there will always be floorcraft issues, whether you are an experienced westie or a newbie. And again as with any dance, beginners have so much to think about already that their floorcraft tends to be poorer.

What was the point again ?

[MartinHarper]

I thought the CerocPort solution was to have so few people book that there's plenty of space and floorcraft isn't required? I kid, I kid.

[marcusj]

I thought the CerocPort solution was to have so few people book that there's plenty of space and floorcraft isn't required? I kid, I kid.

- well it would be that funny if I wasn't one of the few parting with their hard earned for a duff weekend !

[emmylou25]

- well it would be that funny if I wasn't one of the few parting with their hard earned for a duff weekend !

I'm a tad concerned that there's been a bit of slagging it off, when there are people who have paid (me, albeit at discounted rate) and some friends of mine who've never been to a weekender. We all booked before the date change, and would probably have done Storm instead had we known up front both would end up in March. I just want to be able to have a good weekender and get dances with some good dancers who I never see elsewhere - am just hoping that there's still enough people going to make it a good one.

[fletch]

I'm a tad concerned that there's been a bit of slagging it off, when there are people who have paid (me, albeit at discounted rate) and some friends of mine who've never been to a weekender. We all booked before the date change, and would probably have done Storm instead had we known up front both would end up in March. I just want to be able to have a good weekender and get dances with some good dancers who I never see elsewhere - am just hoping that there's still enough people going to make it a good one.

It will fab hun, stop worring, and don't let a few people on hear moaning put you off.

You will get Joe, Josh, Cornish Pixi, Dave Hanson,Tom Baker, Phil Webb, the list is endless.

[Lee Bartholomew]

I think we are currently in the situation where WCS is becoming more and more popular and the numbers doing WCS are increasing. Whether this trend will continue will remain to be seen.

Whilst it is gaining popularity, there will be more and more people crossing over from MJ to WCS and Vice Versa.

The simple answer to the WCS/Blues dancers is just for the moaners to stop moaning. Some of the attitude I have seen from "some" WCS'ers and from "some" blues dancers is pretty appalling.

No you are not special because you have danced in America nor are you special because you have given someone the best dance of their lives once in a darkened room by rubbing up their leg. You are a dancer like the other 1500 odd people in the same location as you. Music is playing so just dance.

Aright sometimes the music is not up to scratch or doesn't do it for you. Don't take it out on the other dancers there, they are not the ones playing the tunes.

Separation and divide will remain in a mixed discipline room simply because people tend to hang out with their friends which they have made at their dance classes. There is nothing wrong with this of course, not one would be expected to hang around with people they don't know when regular faces are there.

I just think that a certain few (and it is only a few) should stop acting like they are the stars of the weekend. Even the WCS pros seem to act more sociable and less stuck up their own @rse. On the other hand the minority of MJ'ers that moan about their being a hotshot area or that Westies are taking up too much of the floor need to realize that westies will hang out with westies and that they are only dancing their dance.

Maybe it should be encouraged for more people to become multi disciplined (or learn proper Smooth Jive )