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Thread: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    Did I not Smile at you when I danced WCS with you
    Christ knows, I wasn't looking at your face.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    The thing is pips we don't need to set this as a us and them situation. We are all in the same boat and a sensible approach is the way forward. There is an issue, because we are discussing it.

    What we need is a friendly solution where all styles are happy

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by marcusj View Post
    Hello DS87 - I agree with what you've said but it's sort of missing the point, westie man only bumped into me once, no real problem with that as it happens all the time, the problem for me was that he thought he was entitled to so much space on a crowded floor in the first place !
    I do think it would help if we all tried to dance/jive whatever in a line.

    I know exacterly who your on about at Evasham I was there just hope it wasn't me he was dancing with.

    It all boils down to plain old good manners, and unfortunately there are some people that just don't have any.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    The thing is pips we don't need to set this as a us and them situation. We are all in the same boat and a sensible approach is the way forward. There is an issue, because we are discussing it.

    What we need is a friendly solution where all styles are happy
    and then you woke up

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    It all boils down to plain old good manners, and unfortunately there are some people that just don't have any.
    Im afraid it doesn't Fletch. It boils down to incompatability on the dance floor.

    Sometimes when your dancing WCS you can not help but take up more space. The same applies for big dancers on the MJ scene. Slotted dancing and MJ dancing do not work when done in the same space.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Im afraid it doesn't Fletch. It boils down to incompatability on the dance floor.
    Sometimes when your dancing WCS you can not help but take up more space. The same applies for big dancers on the MJ scene. Slotted dancing and MJ dancing do not work when done in the same space.
    I don't know about WCS at all, but I do know that MJ can be done in tight spaces quite easily without bumping into people.
    I do know a little about Lindy hop too and looking at youtube vids, you'd think that it needs a lot of space, but it doesn't. It also can be done in very tight spaces without upsetting anyone.
    Can an authority on WCS confirm whether it can be done smaller or not?

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I don't know about WCS at all, but I do know that MJ can be done in tight spaces quite easily without bumping into people.
    I do know a little about Lindy hop too and looking at youtube vids, you'd think that it needs a lot of space, but it doesn't. It also can be done in very tight spaces without upsetting anyone.
    Can an authority on WCS confirm whether it can be done smaller or not?
    An authority is not relevant here is it. An authority is not the one dancing generally on a crowded dance floor. Mj can be dance in a small space, yes it can but you can bet ya bottom dollar most poeple dont or cant do it themselves.

    The point is, its about the difference in steps. WCS is cross steps, MJ generally is not. If ya all doing WCS then your all keeping to your allocated positions to a point. When you put MJ in the mix it does not work well.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    It's possible that a lot of this tension arises because of a difference in floorcraft conventions - as I understand it, in WCS you stake out your slot, then pretty much stick to that slot like glue, and other dancers respect that - is that about it? What floorcraft conventions are taught in typical WCS classes?

    {....}

    So it's quite imaginable that this MJ "rotating slot" model quite legitimately intrudes into the WCS "fixed slot" model, resulting in collision - simply because of a different set of requirements. Neither side is right or wrong, they're simply using different assumptions.
    I agree. I think the third element that tends to bring the problems to a head is when the floor is crowded and it's the combination of a strictly slotted Westie with a large but predictable space and a smaller but more random (not meant as derogatory) space used by an MJ couple and a general squeeze on available space due to crowding that lead to the bumps and bashes.

    I won't name and shame but one of the worst people I experience in terms of floorcraft consideration for others is one of the people who teaches MJ at JA events. He's a competent dancer for sure but definitely gives the impression that he thinks he owns the floor. Undoubtedly there are people out there (and on here) who view some of the WCS dancers in the same way.

    My own solution is to sit out a lot of the time when it is too crowded on the floor. It's not ideal and I may miss songs I really like but the bottom line is that I would rather not dance than have a dance I cannot enjoy due to floorcraft concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by DS87 View Post
    Maybe we should all recount the hundreds of times that we have been crashed into by MJ dancers even when standing still or when they walk onto the floor backwards or maybe even when they freespin their partner with no regard for their safety or that of the surounding dancers! Bad floorcraft exists in all dance styles and we all have unfortunately have been on the receiving end of it at one time or another.


    Should mention also the partner-less people who simply stood gormlessly around on a busy dancefloor - *** is that all about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    got the usual look from WCS'ers who knock into you - "Get out of my way pond life, I am far superior to you"
    If the cap fits.....

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    I think they need to be completely seperated and given their own space/djs. Time slots do not work really as the cross over is diluted and so are the dancers.


    IMO it is no coincidence that the time of least complaint and most positive comment on all posts regarding Skeg was when the MJ and WCS separated on Sunday night / Monday morning. When JA were doing Southport and WCS got its own room on the last one or two events this was true as well. These problems then seemed to disappear and make the whole event more pleasant.

    I am also getting the feeling looking at the posts that WCS and MJ dancers are again becoming entrenched in their views. Its not our fault. It is something the organisers were aware of from past history. However due to the bottle neck of dance space in the evening and the general mish mash this brought, the problem has come back to cast a shadow over the event.

    Besides the issue of outside dancing in June and September this for me this is the only other issue that needs to be resolved at Skeg in order to make it a brilliant weekender. I can even live with the floor at Reds if these problems are resolved.
    Last edited by ant; 17th-February-2009 at 02:19 PM.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I don't know about WCS at all, but I do know that MJ can be done in tight spaces quite easily without bumping into people.
    The issue isn't that WCS is 'big' the way that MJ can be big - unpredictable, people coming at you unexpectedly etc. But WCS does need a slot - however if you see people dancing WCS you pretty much know their 'area'. The problem is that people who dance MJ and have no idea about WCS don't know this and move into an area that a Westie is about to use. To another WCS or even slotted MJ dancer this would be an obvious thing - so it may appear that the MJ dancer is lacking floorcraft manners by taking up what is clearly someone elses dance space, but to the MJer its a clear space on an otherwise crowded dancefloor.

    To the WCSer the MJ dancer may seem rude, to the MJer the WCS may appear to be taking up too much space.

    I've done WCS at MJ venues, salsa nights and muggle dances and we understand that others moving into our slot isn't them being rude - we abort a move or change the direction of slot, sometimes having to pause our dance to do so, in order to accomodate them - but usually try to find an edge of dance floor against a wall to minimise the likelihood of this happening.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post

    Should mention also the partner-less people who simply stood gormlessly around on a busy dancefloor - *** is that all about?



    If the cap fits.....
    hey who you calling gormless

    whats that all about? its called dancing I see you baby shacking that asse!

    Thank you for making me laugh *if the cap fits* I must be tired and feel like a grumpy old woman ...goodness know why

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    hey who you calling gormless
    Lol, not you when you doing your solo thing (which never causes any floorcraft problems btw)

    There were just a few cases of ppl standing randomly on the dancefloor for no apparent reason and getting in the way of those trying to dance around them.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I do think it would help if we all tried to dance/jive whatever in a line.
    That seems excessive - and it's against the flow of the dance characteristics, at least for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    It all boils down to plain old good manners, and unfortunately there are some people that just don't have any.
    There's some truth in this. And of course, there are a lot of factors which exacerbate the problems.

    But fundamentally, if the two dances have different floorcraft conventions - and it appears that they do - then that means that even the best MJ and WCS dancers in the world might have problems mixing in a crowded dance floor, simply because of these different assumptions.

    There's a discussion about floorcraft in WCS here:
    http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=7849

    Seems to be re-inforcing what looks like the consensus view.

    Interestingly, floorcraft in salsa is exactly the same as in MJ, so if it weren't for the musical differences, I imagine MJ-ers and salseros could share the same floorspace quite happily.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Lol, not you when you doing your solo thing (which never causes any floorcraft problems btw)

    There were just a few cases of ppl standing randomly on the dancefloor for no apparent reason and getting in the way of those trying to dance around them.

    It can be arranged ....i'm harmless

    I know i'm not sure what its all about, but it can cause me to have a 'turretts' moment, and shout out

    'OI GET OFF THE FLOOR'

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    So, there are two problems... Floorcraft and music.

    How about we have more classes teaching MJ dancers how to dance in a slot, and how to dance to slower music without doing blues?

    The WCS dancers could go to PR classes at the same time...

    There – problem solved.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    It can be arranged ....i'm harmless

    I know i'm not sure what its all about, but it can cause me to have a 'turretts' moment, and shout out

    'OI GET OFF THE FLOOR'
    NO NO NO Fletch

    Tourettes would have been

    OI YOU FU5K1NG USELESS WAN5ER OF A SO CALLED DANCER, GET YA BIG FAT A5SE OFF THE FU5KING FLOOR YOU ABSOLUTE FREAK OF NATURE.

    Do ya see the difference.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I don't know about WCS at all, but I do know that MJ can be done in tight spaces quite easily without bumping into people.
    I do know a little about Lindy hop too and looking at youtube vids, you'd think that it needs a lot of space, but it doesn't. It also can be done in very tight spaces without upsetting anyone.
    Can an authority on WCS confirm whether it can be done smaller or not?
    I am not an auithority but I have seen Paul and Cat using a small slot dancing to very fast music in the bouncy room at SP. The big question is can the average WCS dancers dance in such a small slot. I would say only a small minority can at this mo.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    That seems excessive - and it's against the flow of the dance characteristics, at least for me.


    There's some truth in this.

    .

    do you think? we learn in a line up, and you can quite easily Jive in a line, I just think it safer and neeter.

    I think we all like to think we are important, I do try to help newbies when I dance its hard enough for them thinking ....ooooo...what comes next after that move, and you know you men arnt that good at multi tasking

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    NO NO NO Fletch

    Tourettes would have been

    OI YOU FU5K1NG USELESS WAN5ER OF A SO CALLED DANCER, GET YA BIG FAT A5SE OFF THE FU5KING FLOOR YOU ABSOLUTE FREAK OF NATURE.

    Do ya see the difference.

    I'm just to nice for my own good arn't I

    Do you think I could get away with a little *shove* as well just to help them on there way

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    If the cap fits.....
    You're so predictable.

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