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Thread: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    Just my opinion but I like the jive addiction weekenders precisely because they offer more than just jive. I like the mix of music, the chance to try different dances if I wish, the level of teachers that are brought in (and the cabarets they perform and the fact that, on the whole, they are approachable and willing to join in with the spirit of the weekend and dance with the punters) and the range of abilities and styles of dancer that they attract. If a weekender was advertised as purely modern jive then I don't think that would appeal to me so much.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    Just my opinion but I like the jive addiction weekenders precisely because they offer more than just jive. I like the mix of music, the chance to try different dances if I wish, the level of teachers that are brought in (and the cabarets they perform and the fact that, on the whole, they are approachable and willing to join in with the spirit of the weekend and dance with the punters) and the range of abilities and styles of dancer that they attract. If a weekender was advertised as purely modern jive then I don't think that would appeal to me so much.
    Firstly I assume you have been to all Southport weekenders and have been going to weekenders for years to give you the background ?

    NOBODY I think suggest there shouldnt be different classes being taught for different dance styles

    Hell you would only have to go back to Camber 2004 to see Cha Cha, Tango, swing ,line dancing tap dancing and everything in between being taught, all great fun. Most of these had areas where you could practice

    What we didnt have was 50 tap dancers taking over the blues room and for 50% of the music being tap dancing music

    Some decisions will have to be made. wether its this year who knows.
    Last edited by stewart38; 16th-February-2009 at 10:36 PM.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Firstly I assume you have been to all Southport weekenders and have been going to weekenders for years to give you the background ?

    NOBODY I think suggest there shouldnt be different classes being taught for different dance styles

    Hell you would only have to go back to Camber 2004 to see Cha Cha, Tango, swing ,line dancing tap dancing and everything in between being taught, all great fun. Most of these had areas where you could practice

    What we didnt have was 50 tap dancers taking over the blues room and for 50% of the music being tap dancing music

    Some decisions will have to be made. wether its this year who knows.

    Or dont call it a jive weekender call it a WCS/Jive weekender and see what happens

    If everyone or a majority want WCS all the time thats fine but lets stop pretending anything else
    JA do not run Jive Weekenders, they run Dance weekenders!

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    JA do not run Jive Weekenders, they run Dance weekenders!
    Sorry i meant they don`t run exclusively MJ events, They run Dance events, i don`t believe Eclipse has been advertised as a MJ event!

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    JA do not run Jive Weekenders, they run Dance weekenders!
    Yes. I made that point also.

    But can we please stop talking about bleedin' Jive bleedin' Addiction all the time and focus on the general point?

    Am I talking to myself here?

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    But again, can we focus on the more general issue not just JA stuff? There's a whole aftermath thread for JA.
    But I don't think you can separate them. The only weekenders that you get this debate after are the JA ones.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    But I don't think you can separate them. The only weekenders that you get this debate after are the JA ones.
    Fine, I give up.

    Let's have two Skegness aftermath threads then.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    JA do not run Jive Weekenders, they run Dance weekenders!
    This is very true they run 'dance weekenders' and I have amended my comment

    So the question remains can you mix WCS/Jive/Blues up

    Is it time WCS , like lindy hop went its own way ?
    Last edited by stewart38; 16th-February-2009 at 10:41 PM.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Fine, I give up.

    Let's have two Skegness aftermath threads then.
    Pick up your dummy

    It's not a Skegness aftermath, it is a facet of weekenders that Skegness repeated and it is IMO a phenomenon unique to JA weekenders. I think it needs discussion and I think Ducasi did the right thing in starting a separate thread for it.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    The debate as I see it, is about the diluting of THE BLUES ROOM with WCS music. yes some tracks are suitable for both. By the very nature of this debate it proves there are bones of contention amongst dancers. The classes and teaching are not the issue. The issue is where and when to dance the different styles.


    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    The debate as I see it, is about the diluting of THE BLUES ROOM with WCS music. yes some tracks are suitable for both. By the very nature of this debate it proves there are bones of contention amongst dancers. The classes and teaching are not the issue. The issue is where and when to dance the different styles.


    DTS XXX XXX
    Well said, the issue is does a BLUES ROOM suffer from uptempo WCS music and slotted dancers . I would say yes.

    Now JA had Jaks build as Social dancing a fusion of Smooth Jive,blues,WCS etc ie anything. It wasn't put down as a Blues room or slow dancing etc and its unfair to suggest that

    Did it work ?, I dont think so

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post

    WCS seems to have an attitude of "Fit us in as we are the elite WCS mob".

    Go to a WCS weekend then you will not have anything to moan about will you.
    These are Jive weekends you are diluting for lots of people.



    Now I know this sounds harsh but I go on Jive weekends, where I expect to dance Jive and Blues.
    No DTS it dosent sound harsh to me.

    unfortunately there are some WCS 'ers who really believe they have "steeped up' to WCS that's why they are the elite, and if they have 'stepped up' then Jive must be a step down.

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    - it makes it less intimidating and surely will only help the scene to grow.

    If you talk to the 'A' list westies they will tell you there not intimidating its all in your imagination.

    yaer right

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Well FF stop guessing treacle I have tried WCS. Ceroc is diluting it's market by bowing down to the WCS again. The solution seems to be seperate rooms or better still seperate weekenders How long does this brain numbing sh1t need to go on before someone stands up and makes a decision. If anyone wants to progress into the upper eschelons of WCS then please do and leave us poor misguided jivers to our useless fumbling on the floor.

    Ps I do go to all of the Ceroc events, and I mean ALL of them sweetie, Princess, treacle. And the so called hot shot Yankie boys and girls of the WCS, lets have a look at them. Have you talked to little benji boy, he is not shy in telling you how rich and wonderfull he is.
    I agree about the seperate rooms DTS but perhaps instead of it been Jive v WCS the room should be split with people that care about others feeling v selfish if you can't give me a dance I think I deserve I wont give it you.

    There are some lovely westie James Mac for one and a wonderful man from Scotland called Dave who gave me my two best dances of Skeggie, who doesn't jive so I wonder what I was doing then

    IMO there is to much 'turn a blind eye' to unexcepterble behaviour going on I appreciate not every one is as brave as me we all have strengths and weaknesses, good job I have some one to fight my corner in certain situations, glad I have a barrister as a 'fletcherette' I will make no apologies for questioning un expectable behaviour in any walk of life or in any situation, I don't always get it right and then I will apologise if i'm wrong....but I will speak out make no mistake

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Firstly I assume you have been to all Southport weekenders and have been going to weekenders for years to give you the background ?

    NOBODY I think suggest there shouldnt be different classes being taught for different dance styles

    Hell you would only have to go back to Camber 2004 to see Cha Cha, Tango, swing ,line dancing tap dancing and everything in between being taught, all great fun. Most of these had areas where you could practice

    What we didnt have was 50 tap dancers taking over the blues room and for 50% of the music being tap dancing music

    Some decisions will have to be made. wether its this year who knows.

    Or dont call it a jive weekender call it a WCS/Jive weekender and see what happens

    If everyone or a majority want WCS all the time thats fine but lets stop pretending anything else

    I was not, and still am not, trying to get into an argument. As I said, I was merely stating my opinion as to why I go to dance weekenders. This is my third year of attending weekenders so it's true I may not have been to as many as some others on this forum. However, to my mind, progression and evolution is a positive thing and maybe jive is growing and changing. Slotted jive is very popular as far as I can see so surely that allows for wcs and mj to be danced on the same floor (as long as all parties are considerate with regard to use of space in relation to how busy the floor is and the safety of their partner).

    Also, as I've said before (and again this is just a personal preference) I like a lot of the music that people consider to be WCS music. I like dancing to it - in whatever style my partner and I choose whether that be mj/blues/wcs. I also think attending some wcs classe/workshops can help improve/develop a person's mj/blues dancing. So again that is another argument for having mj and wcs (and other dance forms too) side by side.

    On a side note perhaps it is 'personality' more than style of dance that affects whether dancers take over the floor or not. After all, are there not modern jivers that dance with no consideration for their partner or those on the floor around them.

    Maybe what is required is more feedback to DJs and organiser of tracks/artists that they would like to hear more/less of at events. That might be a way to work to resolving the issue rather than requesting less wcs music. Just because some couples may be dancing wcs to a track it doesn't necessarily mean that you can't jive to it.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post

    Maybe what is required is more feedback to DJs and organiser of tracks/artists that they would like to hear more/less of at events. That might be a way to work to resolving the issue rather than requesting less wcs music. Just because some couples may be dancing wcs to a track it doesn't necessarily mean that you can't jive to it.




    I have no idea what wcs music is unless its got that high pitched squeak in it, don't bother asking me who's singing this song playing I have no idea I just know oooo I like this one, some of the music that was played on Friday was very similar, I kept thinking is this just a long track or a different one, I didn't recognise any of them and it was all a bit same old same, I know I have the attention span of a gold fish but it was just boring. sorry

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    I started this thread to see what people thought of Ceroc's solution to this obvious problem. Jive Addiction don't seem to see that there is a problem at all, as they continue to combine Blues and WCS into one room.

    To those who see Ceroc's solution as "moot" for Southport, do you think it would have made things better at Skegness if JA had made Arthur's a WCS room, at least for some times?*



    (* Based on what I've read, JA might have been wise to make Arthur's a "main" room until Reds opened, then switch it to WCS music later, with maybe some latin/tango in between...)
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Stone me Ducasi short, sharp sh1t hot and straight to the point. Brilliant.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    This is very true they run 'dance weekenders' and I have amended my comment

    So the question remains can you mix WCS/Jive/Blues up

    Is it time WCS , like lindy hop went its own way ?
    I think it already has - I'm already planning on going to 4 WCS weekenders in the UK this year that will have no MJ at all, one that is advertised as mainly WCS and I can think of at least one more I am not booked on.

    But - if you keep getting the absolute best US WCS pros over for a weekend, make them the main focus of the cabaret, schedule classes that are specifically advertised as not being for WCS beginners and play lots of music you can dance WCS to... guess what? You will find some westies turn up...and having paid and turned up they then annoyingly insist on actually dancing too.

    I could argue just as (un)convincingly there are all these MJ dancers sponging off what is clearly really a WCS weekend and getting in the way of the WCS slotted dancing.

    I think you can mix dance styles given 1) enough space and 2) decent floorcraft. The combined line dance/CW events in the US seem to manage it fine with 2 or 3 styles of dance on the same floor, some progressive, some not. But point 1) isn't easy to find the right venue for and point 2) is beyond even the combined powers of Jon and Wes to fix.

    Gven that, I think there's a lot to be said for separate rooms, at least for part of the time (I don't think there were many westies left in Jaks while the WCS set was on in Arthurs...but wasn't in Jaks at the time to check ).

    It does of course help if you make sure you play better music for WCS in the "WCS room" than you do in the "Blues room" or funnily enough people might swap rooms...

    FunkyAngel (rather looking forward to some separate WCS sets in Arthur at the next Eclipse...)

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    To those who see Ceroc's solution as "moot" for Southport, do you think it would have made things better at Skegness if JA had made Arthur's a WCS room, at least for some times?*
    I don't know. I didn't make it out on Sunday evening to see how the experiment of Arthurs providing a dedicated WCS room worked out. As Funky Angel has pointed out though there will still be factors that might pull ppl into one room or the other despite the organisers best attempts to pigeon-hole the styles. Southport would suffer this from time to time as ppl stayed in the Bles room because they liked the layout or the proximity of the bar or the sound system or whatever. Frankly, unless you play music that is really unsuitable for WCS dancing in Jaks then you are likely to get ppl in there still dancing WCS even if there is a dedicated room if they enjoy the ambience in there, the better bar facilities, seating arrangements, accessibility of cake or whatever.

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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    WCS seems to have an attitude of "Fit us in as we are the elite WCS mob".
    Now I know this sounds harsh but I go on Jive weekends, where I expect to dance Jive and Blues. It just seems that WCS and tango are taking over the Jive weekends.
    DTS XXX XXX
    Dave, I had been called on holiday a WCS hotshot and I was unapproachable by 3 young ladies that I have danced with on occasions. At the end of the holiday I asked them if their opinions had changed, they all said yes. At all dance weekend events that I go to I will always try to WCS, MJ and sometimes I try to dance blues. There are times I will add WCS moves into my modern jive reportoie. IMHO with better floor craft by all dancers and spacial awareness we can all co exist on the dance floor. It is down to the teachers to instill floor craft into their pupils for both disciplines

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    I might be alone in this view but I actually quite like the mix of music in the Blues Room and the fact that people in there will dance both jive, blues and wcs. I'm learning wcs and it's nice to see it done well but it's also nice to see newbies trying it out - it makes it less intimidating and surely will only help the scene to grow.
    On a number of occasions I had a normal jive dance with a young lady only for them to ask me if they can have a WCS dance so that they can practice, I have always said yes as so many followers have been patient with me when I was learning

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Well FF stop guessing treacle I have tried WCS. Ceroc is diluting it's market by bowing down to the WCS again. The solution seems to be seperate rooms or better still seperate weekenders How long does this brain numbing sh1t need to go on before someone stands up and makes a decision. If anyone wants to progress into the upper eschelons of WCS then please do and leave us poor misguided jivers to our useless fumbling on the floor.
    DTS XXX XXX
    Dave you are not misguided, as a WCS dancer and MJ dancer I have enjoyed watching you dance especially the hair pulling move, the best ever move was ayear ago when you had a dance with Fletch and fell though the door way aka Dell boy trotter, then to come back as super man.
    I have also enjoyed being led by your goodself and I have always enjoyed my dances with your young lady Rachel. As much as I still want to learn WCS, the skills i have learn't have improved my MJ dancing and I still love dancing MJ.
    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    No DTS it dosent sound harsh to me.

    unfortunately there are some WCS 'ers who really believe they have "steeped up' to WCS that's why they are the elite, and if they have 'stepped up' then Jive must be a step down.



    If you talk to the 'A' list westies they will tell you there not intimidating its all in your imagination.

    yaer right



    I agree about the seperate rooms DTS but perhaps instead of it been Jive v WCS the room should be split with people that care about others feeling v selfish if you can't give me a dance I think I deserve I wont give it you.

    There are some lovely westie James Mac for one and a wonderful man from Scotland called Dave who gave me my two best dances of Skeggie, who doesn't jive so I wonder what I was doing then
    I still feel humble that I found MJ, I have learnt new skills and many wonderfull people on my dancing journey.

    As a young Lady said to me, every time you have a dance you should try to make this dance the best that you can regardless of the person that you are dancing with. I would like to think that I try my best

    IMHO I will hate the time when WCS and MJ can no longer co exist, why should I restrict my choice of what type of dance I should be able to do.
    Long live MJ and WCS, all you have to do is go to Utopia at Twickenham to see how they can co-exist
    Last edited by Gerry; 16th-February-2009 at 11:53 PM.

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    Senior Member zimbabwean's Avatar
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    Re: WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    The debate as I see it, is about the diluting of THE BLUES ROOM with WCS music. yes some tracks are suitable for both. By the very nature of this debate it proves there are bones of contention amongst dancers. The classes and teaching are not the issue. The issue is where and when to dance the different styles.


    DTS XXX XXX

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