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Thread: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

  1. #121
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Doyle View Post
    I'd be happy to [record video explaining this stuff] ...but it may be a week or so before I'd get a chance to record some video footage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Doyle View Post
    If/when I have more time I may consider making videos...but I couldn't be a***d at the moment.
    Well, a depressing if predictable change of attitude Alan. With nothing to back up what you are saying on here how can you expect any of us that do not know you to view what you write as having any authority? I genuinely am interested to see if I understand what you are talking about when it's presented in video format because your written word isn't working for me.

    And in case you are wondering, I have posted video of myself dancing in the past (very many warts and all) so it's not like I am asking you to do something I wouldn't do myself.

  2. #122
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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Well, a depressing if predictable change of attitude Alan. With nothing to back up what you are saying on here how can you expect any of us that do not know you to view what you write as having any authority? I genuinely am interested to see if I understand what you are talking about when it's presented in video format because your written word isn't working for me.

    And in case you are wondering, I have posted video of myself dancing in the past (very many warts and all) so it's not like I am asking you to do something I wouldn't do myself.
    Rob,

    My change in attitude is because of the attitude of some of the people on this forum. I didn't say that I wouldn't do it, I said I would do it if/when I had time. I work a full time job and also teach at the weekends, my evenings and weekends are full until August. I'm not going to go out of my way to do video demo if all I'm getting is stick from some people on this forum.

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Doyle View Post
    I didn't say that I wouldn't do it, I said I would do it if/when I had time. I work a full time job and also teach at the weekends, my evenings and weekends are full until August. I'm not going to go out of my way to do video demo if all I'm getting is stick from some people on this forum.
    Yes Rob can be a bit obnoxious like that at times . However and in all fairness, you did commit to do it and it's not like it takes hours to do - heck even I can do it with my camera - all it takes is finding a flat surface to put the thing on while you dance - and it sounds like you dance a lot.
    I'm sure that if you can find 15 min to do that between now and august you'll gain in credit on here

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    Re: Knowing your partners foot/weight/placing...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Question for David Franklin & anyone else with the knowledge:

    Is there a high level programming language for movement, perhaps used in the Video games industry, that could be adapted as the basis for one specifying choreography?
    Late reply on the above point, but you could certainly use Valve's Source engine for something like that (as used in games such as Counter Strike Source and Half Life 2). It was recently used to simulate fire scenarios in buildings so that company staff could "virtually" see the best route to escape from their desk depending on where a fire broke out in their office.

    Of course it didn't stop people from running through fire or burning doors, but you get the idea.

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Yes Rob can be a bit obnoxious like that at times . However and in all fairness, you did commit to do it and it's not like it takes hours to do - heck even I can do it with my camera - all it takes is finding a flat surface to put the thing on while you dance - and it sounds like you dance a lot.
    I'm sure that if you can find 15 min to do that between now and august you'll gain in credit on here
    I'll see if I can make some time this weekend

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    Re: Knowing your partners foot/weight/placing...

    Quote Originally Posted by frolicols View Post
    Late reply on the above point, but you could certainly use Valve's Source engine for something like that (as used in games such as Counter Strike Source and Half Life 2). It was recently used to simulate fire scenarios in buildings so that company staff could "virtually" see the best route to escape from their desk depending on where a fire broke out in their office.

    Of course it didn't stop people from running through fire or burning doors, but you get the idea.
    stealing a quote from elsewhere:

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    ...I'm sure that if you can find 15 min to do that between now and august you'll gain in credit on here
    Thanks, & rep

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Doyle View Post
    I'll see if I can make some time this weekend
    Ok, I'm started to make some video clips. I'm not very happy with the quality but it's just for demo purposes...it's not a professionally made video.

    I uploaded them to my facebook account, you can search for me on facebook 'Alan Doyle' and add me as a friend and you can see the videos.

    1) Downbeats & Upbeats

    Identifying the down beats and upbeats and counting sets of 8 using rolling count.

    2) Underarm Turn in WCS

    Taught using rolling count

    3) Underarm Turn (Travelling Return) in Modern Jive

    I first talked a bit about how to correctly count modern jive (I also used rolling count)
    I then taught the Under Arm Turn (using rolling count) and teaching it using a rock step and an anchor. This also uses a body lead.

    4) Demo of More Modern Jive Moves

    Using a rock step and an anchor and using rolling count.

    I'm not completely happy with the body leading but I'm definately making some progress...but there is an awful lot more to do.

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    I'm running on the assumption thats the Alan Doyle in Ireland, with four guys in a group on the profile picture?

    It turns out Alan Doyle is a reasonably popular name....

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    I'm running on the assumption thats the Alan Doyle in Ireland, with four guys in a group on the profile picture?

    It turns out Alan Doyle is a reasonably popular name....
    It's the Alan Doyle from Dublin, Ireland with the picture of Skippy, Sarah and Myself.

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Doyle View Post
    Ok, I'm started to make some video clips. I'm not very happy with the quality but it's just for demo purposes...it's not a professionally made video.
    no worries the quality is fine, thanks for posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Doyle View Post
    I'm not completely happy with the body leading but I'm definately making some progress...but there is an awful lot more to do.
    If i may offer a couple of suggestions that might be helpful...

    - The body leading will be easier if there is a nice anchor - it's hard to tell on vid but it doesn't seem to me that there is much tension at the beginning of your UAT (that connection also comes from sufficient distance when the frame is set) - Getting more elasticity before you start should make the body leading easier
    - Press into the floor a little more and use that connection - I'm sure Skippy explained the you the importance of the sending feet, if you push off that right foot more you'll have a better body lead as well.
    - Frame - of course your left arm will have to bend to allow for the turn, but it seems to me that this happens slightly too early for you. I'm thinking if you concentrate on giving direction first (on 'and &1' ) then allowing the turn, it should make for a better body lead as well.

    Now having said that I am not a leader and people like NZM, DS87, Geordied or PaulF (to name but a few) may be in a better position to help you

  11. #131
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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Now having said that I am not a leader and people like NZM, DS87, Geordied or PaulF (to name but a few) may be in a better position to help you
    I'm more than happy to give a few pointers if they're wanted, but if I remember correctly the purpose of the videos was to show the use of the UUS and rolling count in a MJ context, so I'll only mention those for now.

    I have to admit that I don't see anything from those clips that differentiates the teaching style from mainstream MJ, except possibly going over the footwork individually (this is done on occasion in Auckland, but I think that's relatively unusual in the greater MJ world).

    I don't see the value of the rolling count in MJ. There seems little point in splitting a beat three ways if you only ever use the main beat to me. To be perfectly honest - i think rolling count is much more powerful in WCS as a concept rather than in strict application.

    For quantitative purposes, at 100BPM each beat is 0.6s apart, and lasts for a brief period of time itself. The difference between 1/2 and 2/3 of that beat is 0.1s, which is a challenging swing in timing to maintain over three minutes when all you need to do is so-ordinate your middle finger on a stopwatch, let alone your whole body AND your partner.

    I see pro's and advanced dancers swing their footwork, but the timing is far more variable than the way they teach it would suggest. In MJ, it seems less important again since we only dance on those main beats.

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    One thing that is needed in the world right now is a motion description language for use by programmers of video games and other entities in motion applications. My guess is that such things exist, but how powerful and versatile they are at present I have no idea.
    Akin to Kinect - I'd say the truest description of a dance movement (currently), is capturing that movement in motion capture. It can then be showed as a skeleton moving, or be slowed down, sped up, looked at movement, look at variation of the same movement over several takes etc.

    You can then also compare in 3 dimensional space how you do something compared to others. (So with avatars, you could actually help visualisation by taking a lead/follow point of view (seeing through their eyes)

    The great thing (apart from wonderful compression over video!) is that you can then overlay graphics, take whatever virtual camera point you want.

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    Nov 5th 2010 Microsoft launched the Kinect 3D controller for the XBox games console. It took only a few weeks for hackers to decode the interface and have the controller interfaced to the PC. From there the programming community set about using it in all sorts of ways using free opensource software. This is one of the more mundane results, a puppet copies the actions of a human.

    http://kinecthacks.net/real-time-pup...n-with-kinect/

    One of the ways this might affect dance teaching is that the software can, in real time, scale and distort the skeletal representation. This means that the actions of the pupil can be compared, in real time, with the actions of a teacher/model. The differences could be measured, in real time. What we could see is an image of you dancing, dressed any way you liked, looking like a film star, if you so desired, and prompts appearing, or vocalised, as you danced showing which bits of you were in a different place from the teacher/model.

    BTW your image could have superpowers too

    BTW2 The build cost of a Kinect controller has been estimated as £35

    BTW3 I did mean "mundane".

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    Re: Documenting Modern Jive Moves/Patterns using the Universal Unit System

    I'd put a fiver on mocap coming to Salsa, Jive and hip-hop soon - Dance Central is already a very polished Kinect title!

    Frankly i'm surprised there isn't a Ceroc iPhone app yet hehe - who needs sweet talking to?

    I'd imagine the indy/hacker side of things will bring things up to scratch a lot quicker (from the salsa side - we've already got such gems as addicted2salsa's Pocket Salsa, Salsa Rhythm, LDF's salsa apps...)

    We're tantalisingly close to getting things exploding in this market. £30 for a DVD? How about say 99p for an in app purchase of a video recapping the 3 moves you learnt in lesson?
    Capturing dance into a skeletal frame avatar is a big thing - you can then do all sorts with this - POV angles, comparisons, competitions, name the move, do the move named, practise, review, and show how things link.
    Early days.

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