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Thread: The Ballroom Drop - help!

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    Registered User Easily Led's Avatar
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    The Ballroom Drop - help!

    I would like to be able to do this drop as elegantly as possible and without crashing to the floor. Do I need to be able to hold my own weight all the time and to be able to bring myself back up with minimum effort on my partner's part or is this hold only for the strong partner or the lightweight follower? Are there any exercises you can do to be stronger at holding your weight when near the ground? Are there any visual examples anywhere that take you through the process step by step?

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    Registered User Easily Led's Avatar
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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Thanks to the anonymous person who sent me a web link.

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    I'm not the lightest of people but I do the ballroom drop with one or 2 guys who aren't necessarily massively strong but who have a specific technique they've been taught that works.

    I always keep one leg bent the same I would in any other lean/seducer so have my own weight. Some leaders bring me straight up from that one leg bent/one leg straight position (faster through momentum), while others who take more time over it and maybe have less strength, I'll bend my other leg to help myself up if I feel it's needed.

    Having said that, there are people I won't do the drop with (or usually any others). I always make sure we've got a good butterfly (interlocked thumb) clasp with both hands, and I find I have to be in the right position for the leader to step to the left to ensure I drop.

    The best thing I found is getting someone to talk you through it properly. Firstly one of the leaders talked me through it (ie lady keeping arms straight), but since then I've also been to several classes/workshops that have included it. The really good workshop I did told the leaders to move their right arm down their left as they lowered the women which worked really well, but in other classes at weekenders they've not been specific about this which isn't as consistent.

    In terms of exercises - if you've got strong thighs it'll help. Squats or lunges are probably the best to build strength up on these, I think - but am sure someone else will give advice on this who knows more on fitness.

    Good luck with it.

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post

    Having said that, there are people I won't do the drop with (or usually any others). I always make sure we've got a good butterfly (interlocked thumb) clasp with both hands, and I find I have to be in the right position for the leader to step to the left to ensure I drop.
    when i was taught this i was shown that the lead has to be in the "A" frame position and lower his hands straight down which how i always lead it . This gives me a firm base to work from and doesn't put me or my follow of balance
    I find i can do this with any follow (quite a few on here will testement to that lol)
    I will also always test the water so to speak by feeling the follows weight as she goes down if i i feel she doesnt want to go any further i only drop her to the position she is comfortable with
    The only time that this didnt work as a test was with drathzel who takes her entire weight all the way to the floor Ive no idea how she manages that as she is the only person i have ever danced with that does

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    when i was taught this i was shown that the lead has to be in the "A" frame position and lower his hands straight down which how i always lead it . This gives me a firm base to work from and doesn't put me or my follow of balance
    I find i can do this with any follow (quite a few on here will testement to that lol)

    Martin does beautiful ballroom drops - really controlled and safe.
    I (as you know) am only a size 10 in my imagination and worry about drops that I cannot control myself but Martins method has loads of control on the way down and up!

    Rachel
    xxx

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Personally, if you are wanting to do dips, or drops, I'd advise going and finding a workshop in your area, run by someone who knows what they are doing, and learning to do things properly

    If there's no workshops, maybe you could find a decent teacher, and get a private lesson off them.

    There's nothing I hate seeing more on the dancefloor, than dips and drops done badly, where there's a risk of either person getting injured. Well, okie, maybe there are things that I hate more, but that's right up there with them!

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Batgirl View Post

    Martin does beautiful ballroom drops - really controlled and safe.
    I (as you know) am only a size 10 in my imagination and worry about drops that I cannot control myself but Martins method has loads of control on the way down and up!

    Rachel
    xxx
    awwwwwww ta rachel you do a beautiful size 10 ballroom drop for me all the time

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Personally, if you are wanting to do dips, or drops, I'd advise going and finding a workshop in your area, run by someone who knows what they are doing, and learning to do things properly

    If there's no workshops, maybe you could find a decent teacher, and get a private lesson off them.

    There's nothing I hate seeing more on the dancefloor, than dips and drops done badly, where there's a risk of either person getting injured. Well, okie, maybe there are things that I hate more, but that's right up there with them!

    I couldnt agree more i think these drops should never be taught in an open class situation
    I did two workshops first one to learn the basics ie how to stand and hold yourself when doing drops. The second taught all sorts of different drops

    I will only do them if i feel confident about my ability to lead them and to get out of trouble if something goes wrong

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    I did two workshops first one to learn the basics ie how to stand and hold yourself when doing drops. The second taught all sorts of different drops
    There should definitely be more of these workshops around. There are still too many weak dancers who think they're really steady doing drops, who don't check with the followers first, then look at me like I'm wrong for refusing to do the drop/lean etc. Even when I explain I only do them with people I've danced a lot with before or people that I'm really sure about following their lead (I try to be polite, but sometimes it doesn't work when I say no drops but then they still lead them!)

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    There should definitely be more of these workshops around. There are still too many weak dancers who think they're really steady doing drops, who don't check with the followers first, then look at me like I'm wrong for refusing to do the drop/lean etc. Even when I explain I only do them with people I've danced a lot with before or people that I'm really sure about following their lead (I try to be polite, but sometimes it doesn't work when I say no drops but then they still lead them!)
    why do some people have to do that to follows
    When i am going to do a drop i will either ask before leading it (it doesnt take much to say "do you do drops") or start the lead then if the follow either doesnt take it up or trys and obviously doesnt know what i am doing i will convert the lead into something else perhaps telling the follow that i am unwilling to put either one of us at risk
    Thing is this whole dance malarky is about two people having fun on the dance floor its not about the people on the outside watching i mean we are not in competition with each other we are just dancing

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Sara and Tor did a great drops workshop earlier in the year, spent all afternoon working on just a few drops, mainly looking at technique. By the end of the afternoon, I could just about do a ballroom drop with all the followers there - not sure it was gracefull, but it worked (and I'm someone who sits behind a desk all day).
    This was one instance where having a group to rotate made a big difference, practicing with different people made it easier to find what works best - I don't think there are really any quick tips to make the harder drops easy (a 6 stone follower can probably make a ballroom drop difficult for me).

    Sean

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    I always keep one leg bent the same I would in any other lean/seducer so have my own weight. Some leaders bring me straight up from that one leg bent/one leg straight position (faster through momentum), while others who take more time over it and maybe have less strength, I'll bend my other leg to help myself up if I feel it's needed.


    a key thing when doing a ballroom drop is to carry your own weight, this means not dropping like a sack of potatoes - you need to engage your core muscles - one way to do this is to imagine that you are an ironing board and keep your body as straight and firm as you can from knee to head.

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yliander View Post


    a key thing when doing a ballroom drop is to carry your own weight, this means not dropping like a sack of potatoes - you need to engage your core muscles - one way to do this is to imagine that you are an ironing board and keep your body as straight and firm as you can from knee to head.
    not having danced with you do you manage this all the way to the floor?? if so i guess thats how drathzel did it as i said earlier she is the only person who has ever done that with me and i have felt absolutely no weight in my arms

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    feeling the follows weight as she goes down
    Personally I feel that if they are willing to go down then the weight of a follower becomes less of an issue for me.

    I actually led a BD at Twisted with a follower after she had mentioned it (I had completely forgotten it) and it's a nice move when done well. I love to see the iron pumpers (you know the sort, always in a vest the better to show off the guns) finding their dancefloor niche with a BD teasing the follower by starting the exit then dropping her back down again and again ad nauseam as if she were just another piece of kit down at the gym and they must do 50 reps

    Agree with the advice to do a dips and drops workshop if you get the chance. I did one with Emma P & Alex a few years back and, my god, I don't think I have ever ached as much as at the end of that day

    I rarely do dips and drops now and find I have the problem of some followers thinking I am leading a Drip, throwing themselves into it and me having to catch their fall. Clearly, whatever I am trying to lead at that point must be very similar to the entrance to a dip or whatever.

    Finally (and getting well away from the OP but who cares) if you are put into a seducer ladies, look into your partner's eyes on the way down. So few follows seem to do this and instead fling their heads back or to the side. For me, as a leader, the most connected and satisfying seducers include good eye contact. Lisa does this superbly (though I daresay she won't be doing any dips for a wee while )

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yliander View Post


    a key thing when doing a ballroom drop is to carry your own weight, this means not dropping like a sack of potatoes - you need to engage your core muscles - one way to do this is to imagine that you are an ironing board and keep your body as straight and firm as you can from knee to head.
    Excellent advice! I find that palates exercises help core muscles - the 'bridge' in particular is a good one, but if you have any back problems, then check with a physio/palates teacher before you do this. I use the whole of my body, from pushing down into the foot, using my bent leg and my stomach muscles to bring myself back up.

    Also, when doing drops, turn your face to the side (as though looking towards the infamous Judges). Whatever you do, - DO NOT LOOK UP TOWARDS YOUR PARTNER'S FACE OR CEILING - there are limited muscles in the back of the neck and you can give yourself whiplash. You can also hit the back of your head on the floor.

    Finally, or maybe firstly! Try to get a lesson from a competent teacher.


    Elaine

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Personally I feel that if they are willing to go down then the weight of a follower becomes less of an issue for me.
    i didnt mean the weight was an issue i use it to judge how far the follow wants to be dropped ie if the weight comes right off half way down i will stop the drop there as the follow obviously wants that

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post

    I rarely do dips and drops now and find I have the problem of some followers thinking I am leading a Drip, throwing themselves into it and me having to catch their fall. Clearly, whatever I am trying to lead at that point must be very similar to the entrance to a dip or whatever.
    No one should throw themselves into a drop its extremely dangerous.
    Any drop or dip should be completely controlled by both partners in the dance

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Finally (and getting well away from the OP but who cares) if you are put into a seducer ladies, look into your partner's eyes on the way down. So few follows seem to do this and instead fling their heads back or to the side.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB View Post
    Also, when doing drops, turn your face to the side (as though looking towards the infamous Judges). Whatever you do, - DO NOT LOOK UP TOWARDS YOUR PARTNER'S FACE OR CEILING - there are limited muscles in the back of the neck and you can give yourself whiplash. You can also hit the back of your head on the floor.
    I should say that I was referring specificaly to a seducer dip with my comments and I have been taught for this move to cradle the back of the ladies head with my hand during the dip to give both support and some protection against collision or, in worst case scenario, a fall to the floor.

    And Martin, it wasn't a serious comment about weight, just some innuendo

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    ... drathzel who takes her entire weight all the way to the floor
    ok it's been a while since I last did a BD, but if we're talking about the same thing, I cannot see how that would be possible.

    Yes the follower supports some of her weight using a bent leg and holding her body as straight (the core muscles) as possible, but there is a point past which she cannot physically be in charge of all her weight - unless she's got some sort of levitation power

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    ok it's been a while since I last did a BD, but if we're talking about the same thing, I cannot see how that would be possible.

    Yes the follower supports some of her weight using a bent leg and holding her body as straight (the core muscles) as possible, but there is a point past which she cannot physically be in charge of all her weight - unless she's got some sort of levitation power
    It's important to realise that the follower's body doesn't need to be straight. Arching the back will allow a "head to the floor" drop where the center stays over the supporting foot.

    For an extreme example of how this makes it possible to do a BD with no support from the lead, consider one of those contortionists who can bend over backwards and pick something off the floor with their teeth.

    More generally, if you have a really good back arch (by mortal standards, not contortionist standards) it is possible to get all the way to the floor in a BD position and control your weight. I've not known anyone who could do quite manage that, but I think Andreas said one of his partners could.

    I have personally known partners who took so much weight that I could do a BD using one finger with little effort.

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    Re: The Ballroom Drop - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    For an extreme example of how this makes it possible to do a BD with no support from the lead, consider one of those contortionists who can bend over backwards and pick something off the floor with their teeth.

    More generally, if you have a really good back arch (by mortal standards, not contortionist standards) it is possible to get all the way to the floor in a BD position and control your weight. I've not known anyone who could do quite manage that, but I think Andreas said one of his partners could.
    yeah I did think that contortionists would be able to do that, but haven't seen many doing MJ

    Wouldn't the girl need a super strong thigh too ? Anyway I remain unconvinced... (contortionist excepted) until I see someone go into a BD position on her own, and back up, without her back touching the floor!

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