Ceroc History

[Gerry]

I suspect that many people come along because a friend has told them, or just shown by their enthusiasm, that it is great fun. I guess some are just curious, and some just come along to see their friend making an idiot of themselves.

This is the reason why I came to my very first modern Jive lesson via Ceroc, sorry Andy

Good luck with your new strategy for the new year

[Jive Crazy]

the idea of this forum, which is where this was posted, IS to complain. I cant be bothered editing wikis but i can be bothered questioning people who say "This article is great " on this forum

I posed this article to provoke a response and discussion as that is what forums are for. I am well aware as somebody who has studied law to post graduate level that wikipedia as a secondary source of information cannot be regarded as gospel. None the less if it has fuelled debate then that is no bad thing.

[Robin]

Is there any way we can get a "thread has been hijacked" icon ?

[bigdjiver]

Is there any way we can get a "thread has been hijacked" icon ?

If replies > 3 ....

[Dreadful Scathe]

Is there any way we can get a "thread has been hijacked" icon ?

how do you define "hijacked" ? in my opinion, your post on hijacking is the first actual hijack of this thread. Ironic isnt it

[Robin]

how do you define "hijacked" ? in my opinion, your post on hijacking is the first actual hijack of this thread. Ironic isnt it

Ermm... how does independant modern jive marketing relate to a wikipedia entry about ceroc then ?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Ermm... how does independant modern jive marketing relate to a wikipedia entry about ceroc then ?

It followed on from the initial post and the claim that the wikipedia entry; "might give some ideas to Commercial Operators of Ceroc and Modern Jive Venues as a whole how they may go about improving the way they operate". So it was already a theme of the thread.

[Robin]

It followed on from the initial post and the claim that the wikipedia entry; "might give some ideas to Commercial Operators of Ceroc and Modern Jive Venues as a whole how they may go about improving the way they operate". So it was already a theme of the thread.

its a bit like musical interpretation then !

[bigdjiver]

Ermm... how does independant modern jive marketing relate to a wikipedia entry about ceroc then ?

The history of Ceroc is very much about the history of MJ marketing, the Leroc and small independent business model vs the Ceroc one.

[Robin]

The history of Ceroc is very much about the history of MJ marketing, the Leroc and small independent business model vs the Ceroc one.

no, thats the history of Ceroc vs other MJ organisations

The history of ceroc is the history of ceroc, no ?

[Martin]

no, thats the history of Ceroc vs other MJ organisations

The history of ceroc is the history of ceroc, no ?

It depends if you are looking at the history of the company trading as Ceroc in the UK, with it's various franchisees, or the dance which some people refer to as Ceroc.

Even if you are looking at the company trading as Ceroc in the UK, it has been influenced in it's direction by other companies providing comps and weekenders and advanced freestyles, which have now become a part of the offerings of Ceroc as a company trading in the UK.

If you are looking at the word Ceroc, which is known as a dance, then mention needs to be given to others doing the same dance under a different name.

So it is difficult to seperate it out.

[David Bailey]

It depends if you are looking at the history of the company trading as Ceroc in the UK, with it's various franchisees, or the dance which some people refer to as Ceroc.

If you look at the history of that page, there is debate about whether the dance and the organisation should be separated.

[bigdjiver]

no, thats the history of Ceroc vs other MJ organisations

The history of ceroc is the history of ceroc, no ?

History is about how people interacted with their environment.

I was interested in the logo and marketing campaign which went with it because there has been a significant change of direction since.

If you look at old style Ceroc it was more adventurous, rough and ready. In this busk you can see a lady who seems not to have danced Jive before launched into a half-moon. If she had spread her arms and legs we would have the logo position.



I have not even seen the hip-hop taught in class for years.


(This clip features some early significant players, including Michel Ange Lau and Mike Ellard)

[Martin]

History is about how people interacted with their environment.

I was interested in the logo and marketing campaign which went with it because there has been a significant change of direction since.

If you look at old style Ceroc it was more adventurous, rough and ready. In this busk you can see a lady who seems not to have danced Jive before launched into a half-moon. If she had spread her arms and legs we would have the logo position.



I have not even seen the hip-hop taught in class for years.


(This clip features some early significant players, including Michel Ange Lau and Mike Ellard)

It does indeed feature the early players, including Christine Keeble (Le Roc), complete with "Jive Bunny" T-shirt.

At that time is was rough and ready. Some geek with his shirt buttoned up to the top with no tie.

[StokeBloke]

If you look at the history of that page, there is debate about whether the dance and the organisation should be separated.

This may be a little difficult as Ceroc is not a form of dance. Ceroc, as we all know is, just a brand name for a generic style of dance; Modern Jive. Ceroc should feature on the Modern Jive definition page as the largest organised group offering Modern Jive dance classes.

But the whole "we do Ceroc" nonsense really does not need enshrining as pseudo-fact on the amateur encyclopedic, semantic playground of pedantry that is "teh wiki".

[bigdjiver]

This may be a little difficult as Ceroc is not a form of dance. Ceroc, as we all know is, just a brand name for a generic style of dance; Modern Jive. Ceroc should feature on the Modern Jive definition page as the largest organised group offering Modern Jive dance classes.

But the whole "we do Ceroc" nonsense really does not need enshrining as pseudo-fact on the amateur encyclopedic, semantic playground of pedantry that is "teh wiki".

My wife still does the "hoovering" with her "hoover", even though I still sometimes mutter "It's a Dyson". People still "xerox" documents. Brand names sneak into our language, and can be lost as brand names.

[Dreadful Scathe]

If you look at the history of that page, there is debate about whether the dance and the organisation should be separated.

oh look...bias

also, compare these...

In 1990, Robert Austin, an original Ceroc franchisee who had broken away from Ceroc to form LeJive, coined the term "Modern Jive". This became a generic term for the Ceroc dance

Modern Jive was developed in the United Kingdom during the 1980s at three London-based clubs, 'Ceroc', 'Le Roc' and 'Cosmopolitan Jive'. The style was based upon a type of Jive that had evolved in France...

So the Ceroc entry bias is "someone left Ceroc in 1990 to create an offshoot of the Ceroc Dance", but the MJ entry suggests that MJ developed in other places independently from Ceroc in the 80's. I think it is clear that there WERE other people doing MJ in the 1980s so the bias is all in the Ceroc entry.

[Minnie M]

grrrrrrrrrrrrr

Can't say how many times I have posted this

I danced "french jive" in the 50's as a young teenager which is very very similar to the dance we do today (modern jive etc etc) - It died out when disco came in, but was regenerated by the team above !

[StokeBloke]

My wife still does the "hoovering" with her "hoover", even though I still sometimes mutter "It's a Dyson". People still "xerox" documents. Brand names sneak into our language, and can be lost as brand names.

I agree that brand names can become part of the vernacular and then actually move into proper language. That's not to say that reference material (even wiki) shouldn't at least try to be accurate. That is what we are discussing. Not what your wife calls things, but what the general population identify that word to mean. To take your example, the Dyson page has no mention of the appliance being a Hoover:

"Dyson is a British appliances manufacturer. Its main products are vacuum cleaners that use cyclonic separation. The founder, James Dyson, used centrifugal particle separation after finding that to restore suction, the dust bag in his vacuum cleaner needed to be..." Wikipedia

Therefore, Wikipedia are rightly not assisting the incorrect use of a pronoun as a noun.

Ceroc is NOT a type of dance, my point was that the difference between a generic type of dance (like modern jive) and a company's brand name (Ceroc) that offer lessons in that style of dance should remain distinctly separate. Especially in works of academia, even low rent ones like Wikipedia.

Language is about communication. Anything that confuses communication is undesirable within language. There's nothing wrong in being accurate

[bigdjiver]

I agree that brand names can become part of the vernacular and then actually move into proper language. That's not to say that reference material (even wiki) shouldn't at least try to be accurate. That is what we are discussing. Not what your wife calls things, but what the general population identify that word to mean. To take your example, the Dyson page has no mention of the appliance being a Hoover:

"Dyson is a British appliances manufacturer. Its main products are vacuum cleaners that use cyclonic separation. The founder, James Dyson, used centrifugal particle separation after finding that to restore suction, the dust bag in his vacuum cleaner needed to be..." Wikipedia

Therefore, Wikipedia are rightly not assisting the incorrect use of a pronoun as a noun.

Ceroc is NOT a type of dance, my point was that the difference between a generic type of dance (like modern jive) and a company's brand name (Ceroc) that offer lessons in that style of dance should remain distinctly separate. Especially in works of academia, even low rent ones like Wikipedia.

Language is about communication. Anything that confuses communication is undesirable within language. There's nothing wrong in being accurate

Confused language?

My cupboards contain floor cleaners, stove cleaners, glass cleaners and other cleaners. A vacuum is free from any contanimants and does not need cleaning. Why would I need a vacuum cleaner? The Dyson cleaner relies on suction, it creates lower pressure, far from a vacuum. Marketing is seldom about being accurate.

Try typing "hoover' into www.dictionary.com

"aspirin" does reveal it was once a trademark, 'biro' does not even mention Mr Biro or tradename. Xerox have fought against becoming a verb for decades.